Modify

Opened 2 years ago

Last modified 14 hours ago

#14142 new enhancement

Rename "Toggle Dialogs" (sometimes "Windows") to "Panel"

Reported by: Klumbumbus Owned by: team
Priority: normal Milestone: 19.03
Component: Core Version:
Keywords: Cc: stoecker, bastiK, Don-vip, simon04, michael2402, wiktorn

Description

In JOSM and in the wiki we use both terms mixed. We should decide which one should be used, so it is easier to the user to understand. Currently this causes also problems like F1 on the "Windows" menu leads to the empty page Help/Menu/Windows?. (Content is currently on Help/ToggleDialogs).

I vote for "Windows" as this is easier to understand and already used most of the time.

Attachments (0)

Change History (61)

comment:1 Changed 2 years ago by michael2402

I don't like the term "ToggleDialog". Their visibility can be toggled by a button but this does not really qualify for this name.

The problem I see with "Windows" is, that users may confuse them with the other windows we have (main window, ...).

What about "Dockable Window"?

comment:2 Changed 2 years ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 16.1217.01
Type: defectenhancement

comment:3 Changed 2 years ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0117.02

comment:4 Changed 2 years ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0217.03

comment:5 Changed 2 years ago by michael2402

Can we decide on a name here?

comment:6 in reply to:  5 ; Changed 2 years ago by Klumbumbus

Replying to michael2402:

Can we decide on a name here?

+1

What about "Dockable Window"?

I would agree with this solution.

comment:7 Changed 2 years ago by stoecker

In 11769/josm:

see #14142 - fix help link

comment:8 Changed 2 years ago by stoecker

In 11770/josm:

see #14142 - fix another help link

comment:9 Changed 2 years ago by stoecker

"Dock" or "Dockable window" is fine for me as well (depending whether we need a short or long form). Long form should be preferred.

comment:10 in reply to:  6 Changed 2 years ago by Klumbumbus

Replying to Klumbumbus:

What about "Dockable Window"?

I would agree with this solution.

However, the docu would sound a bit strange, e.g.: "...open the Tags/Membership dockable window via the Dockable Window menu..." A single word would be better.

comment:11 Changed 2 years ago by Klumbumbus

I'm just wondering what the german transation for "dock" and "dockable window" would be.

comment:12 Changed 2 years ago by stoecker

http://www.linguee.com/english-german/search?source=auto&query=dockable+window --> Andockbares Fenster.

and ...open the Tags/Membership dockable window via the Window menu... sounds much better.

comment:13 in reply to:  12 Changed 2 years ago by Klumbumbus

Replying to stoecker:

http://www.linguee.com/english-german/search?source=auto&query=dockable+window --> Andockbares Fenster.

OK, but whats the german translation for the short form "dock"?

and ...open the Tags/Membership dockable window via the Window menu... sounds much better.

That would be inconsistent again, if we want to keep the term "window" for all the other "undockable pop up windows", see comment:1

comment:14 Changed 2 years ago by michael2402

Why not just call them Docks then?

In German, it is much easier to find a single word for everything: Andockfenster ;-)

comment:15 Changed 2 years ago by bastiK

I don't like dock as a noun too much, the primary association would be a maritime dock and the dock itself doesn't dock=attach to something, the ships that come into the harbor do. Compare the Dock in macOS, which is the global prominent taskbar at a fixed position.

We could call it "dockable window" whenever that sounds okay, and otherwise just "window". The short form makes no distinction between dockable and modal windows, but it can't be helped. At least everyone knows what a window is.

comment:16 Changed 2 years ago by Don-vip

Status of dockable windows in major software, how they name it:

  1. Eclipse: Views and Editors in the "Window" menu.
  2. Netbeans: Windows and Editors in the "Window" menu
  3. Visual Studio: Docking Windows in the "Window" menu
  4. Photoshop: Document Windows and Panels in the "Window" menu.
  5. GIMP: Dockable Dialogs in the "Windows" menu
  6. Blender: They chose to not implement dockable panels

The "Window" menu seems universal. I suggest to keep it.

Concerning the name, all English names suggested are fine so the translation should be our main concern. "Panel" is probably the easiest to translate in all languages and is short. In French we would go for "Fenêtre ancrable" for either "docking/dockable window/dialog" but "Panneau" is simpler.

comment:17 Changed 2 years ago by michael2402

For me, a window is something that I can move around the screen. The problem I see with just calling it window is, that most new users don't know that you can move them around.

Just looked around a bit...

Gimp: They call it "dockable dialogs" (German: Andockbare Dialoge), short form: Docks.
Incscape just calls it dialog in the docs, but often refers to it as "Dockable Dialogs" (or docked dialogs as long as they are really docked) and Floating dialogs.
Blender has a "Tool Shelf" (shelf) on the side of it's main window.
Photoshop calls them "Panel"

So we are left with some more names to confuse people: "panel", "dockable panel", "dialog", "dockable dialog", ... ;-)

Edit: Some seconds to slow ...
Edit 2: I agree that we should also unify the translations for this. We should always use the same word in very translated language. We will have the same problem again if we mix "Panel" with several native words for panel...

Last edited 2 years ago by michael2402 (previous) (diff)

comment:18 in reply to:  17 Changed 2 years ago by Don-vip

Replying to michael2402:

Edit: Some seconds to slow ...

Great minds think alike :)

comment:19 Changed 2 years ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0317.04

comment:20 Changed 2 years ago by bastiK

+1 for panel

comment:21 Changed 22 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0417.05

comment:22 Changed 21 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0517.06

comment:23 Changed 20 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0617.07

comment:24 Changed 19 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0717.08

comment:25 Changed 19 months ago by michael2402

Summary: unify naming "Windows" vs. "Toggle Dialogs"Rename "Toggle Dialogs" (sometimes "Windows") to "Panel"

comment:26 Changed 19 months ago by Klumbumbus

German translation would be "Panel" and plural "Panels" then, right? http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Panel

comment:27 in reply to:  26 ; Changed 19 months ago by stoecker

Replying to Klumbumbus:

German translation would be "Panel" and plural "Panels" then, right? http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Panel

Nein, das ist die Übersetzung der falschen Bedeutung: http://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/panel

Paneel → Paneele wäre die richtige Form. Wobei mir Feld oder Tafel besser gefallen würde.

comment:28 in reply to:  27 Changed 19 months ago by michael2402

Replying to stoecker:

Replying to Klumbumbus:

German translation would be "Panel" and plural "Panels" then, right? http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Panel

Nein, das ist die Übersetzung der falschen Bedeutung: http://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/panel

Paneel → Paneele wäre die richtige Form. Wobei mir Feld oder Tafel besser gefallen würde.

Paneel/Paneele is acceptable. The problem with "Feld" and "Tafel" is that they do not relate to the English word. It will be hard to tell this to translators and even harder for people that are not translators but simply use JOSM in a multi-lingual setting (e.g. English tutorials, ...)

comment:29 Changed 19 months ago by Klumbumbus

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel

Bei wikipadia würde Panel passen "Panel, in der Informatik ein einfaches grafisches Gestaltungselement, das von einem Layoutmanager positioniert wird."

wohingegen Paneel mit zwei e: "Paneel, im Sinne von (Holz-)Täfelung bzw. Wand- oder Deckenverkleidung"

comment:30 in reply to:  29 Changed 19 months ago by stoecker

Replying to Klumbumbus:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel

Bei wikipadia würde Panel passen "Panel, in der Informatik ein einfaches grafisches Gestaltungselement, das von einem Layoutmanager positioniert wird."

That's no translation, but taking the English word. Sometimes this is the best solution. I'm not so sure in this case for an element which has enough German translation possibilities. The informatics "Panel" in German is not really used by end-users, only by developers and scientists (and also pronounced like the English word BTW).

Replying to michael2402:

Paneel/Paneele is acceptable. The problem with "Feld" and "Tafel" is that they do not relate to the English word. It will be hard to tell
this to translators and even harder for people that are not translators but simply use JOSM in a multi-lingual setting (e.g. English
tutorials, ...)

There is no need to follow the English original. I18N is more than a simple translation. This would not be the first case where the translation differs from the English original, see the German translation page for notes.

comment:31 Changed 18 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0817.09

comment:32 Changed 17 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.0917.10

comment:33 Changed 16 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.1017.11

comment:34 Changed 16 months ago by Don-vip

If we change it to "panel", I don't know how to rephrase this. "Toggle panels panel" is not great :D

    public DialogsToggleAction() {
        super(tr("Toggle dialogs panel"),
              (ImageProvider) null, /* no icon */
              tr("Toggle dialogs panel, maximize mapview"),
              Shortcut.registerShortcut("menu:view:dialogspanel", tr("Toggle dialogs panel"), KeyEvent.VK_TAB, Shortcut.DIRECT),
              true, "dialogspanel", /* register in toolbar */
              false
        );
        putValue("help", ht("/ToggleDialogs"));
        setSelected(Config.getPref().getBoolean("draw.dialogspanel", true));
        notifySelectedState();
    }
Last edited 16 months ago by Don-vip (previous) (diff)

comment:35 Changed 16 months ago by bastiK

In 13090/josm:

see #14142 - move dialogs toggle action menu entry down to toolbar toggle actions

comment:36 in reply to:  34 ; Changed 16 months ago by bastiK

Replying to Don-vip:

If we change it to "panel", I don't know how to rephrase this. "Toggle panels panel" is not great :D

There may be better wordings, but "Panel area" would be fine. (With [13090])

comment:37 in reply to:  36 Changed 16 months ago by Don-vip

Replying to bastiK:

"Panel area" would be fine

I like it :)

comment:38 Changed 16 months ago by Klumbumbus

I'm not yet really happy with the german translation (singular "Paneel", plural "Paneele"). When I hear "Paneele" I always think of this

(google picture search)

Last edited 16 months ago by Klumbumbus (previous) (diff)

comment:39 in reply to:  38 ; Changed 16 months ago by bastiK

Replying to michael2402:

Replying to stoecker:

Paneel → Paneele wäre die richtige Form. Wobei mir Feld oder Tafel besser gefallen würde.

Paneel/Paneele is acceptable. The problem with "Feld" and "Tafel" is that they do not relate to the English word. It will be hard to tell this to translators and even harder for people that are not translators but simply use JOSM in a multi-lingual setting (e.g. English tutorials, ...)

Replying to Klumbumbus:

I'm not yet really happy with the german translation (singular "Paneel", plural "Paneele"). When I hear "Paneele" I always think of this

What about "Bearbeitungsfeld" or "Arbeitsfeld", which can optionally be shortened to "Feld": "Ebenen-Bearbeitungsfeld", "Minikarten-Feld", "Bearbeitungsfeld für Kartenzeichenstile", ...

comment:40 Changed 15 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.1117.12

comment:41 Changed 14 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 17.1218.01

comment:42 Changed 14 months ago by Don-vip

@Klumbumbus: I think now's a good time to make the switch.

comment:43 in reply to:  39 Changed 14 months ago by Klumbumbus

Replying to bastiK:

What about "Bearbeitungsfeld" or "Arbeitsfeld", which can optionally be shortened to "Feld": "Ebenen-Bearbeitungsfeld", "Minikarten-Feld", "Bearbeitungsfeld für Kartenzeichenstile", ...

"Arbeitsfeld" is good. This provides also a good wording as a whole with the other GUI elements (where the german wording in JOSM and the wiki is a mess atm too):

  • up "Hauptwerkzeugleiste"
  • left "Arbeitswerkzeugliste" which includes the "Arbeitsmodi" in the upper part and the buttons for the "Arbeitsfelder" in the lower part
  • right "Arbeitsfelder"

comment:44 in reply to:  42 ; Changed 14 months ago by Klumbumbus

Replying to Don-vip:

I think now's a good time to make the switch.

So, lets summarize:

English: "Panel"
German: "Arbeitsfeld"
French: "Panneau" ??

The word "Window" is kept for "classic" not dockable windows like the preferences, download or relation editor windows.

Any objections left?

comment:45 Changed 13 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0118.02

No objection.

comment:46 Changed 13 months ago by Klumbumbus

I would be grateful if someone else makes the changes as I have not really an idea atm how to safely find all occourences and if file names should be renamed too and which consequences this would have... :)

comment:47 Changed 13 months ago by Don-vip

OK I'll take a look. I won't rename the Java classes, this would break all plugins. Only the translated strings. I'll let you handle the wiki, deal? ;)

comment:48 Changed 13 months ago by Klumbumbus

Deal. :D

comment:49 in reply to:  44 Changed 13 months ago by Hb---

Replying to Klumbumbus:

German: "Arbeitsfeld"
Any objections left?

Bedienfeld (einzelne Einheit) und
Bedienfeldertafel Bedienfelderstapel (Getoggelt mit TAB)

Last edited 12 months ago by Hb--- (previous) (diff)

comment:50 in reply to:  44 Changed 12 months ago by Hb---

Replying to Klumbumbus:

... like F1 on the "Windows" menu leads to the empty page Help/Menu/Windows?. ...

How to press F1 in the menu? Who can help be invoked there? Needs it to be activated?

Replying to Klumbumbus:

What about "Dockable Window"?

However, the docu would sound a bit strange, e.g.: "...open the Tags/Membership dockable window via the Dockable Window menu..." A single word would be better.

A single word is much easier for translation.

Replying to Klumbumbus:

Replying to stoecker:

http://www.linguee.com/english-german/search?source=auto&query=dockable+window --> Andockbares Fenster.

OK, but whats the german translation for the short form "dock"?

and ...open the Tags/Membership dockable window via the Window menu... sounds much better.

That would be inconsistent again, if we want to keep the term "window" for all the other "undockable pop up windows", ...

Do we want to keep "window" for all the rest? No, see comment:50

Replying to michael2402:

Why not just call them Docks then?
In German, it is much easier to find a single word for everything: Andockfenster ;-)

A "dock" is favourable to keep all "panels" together.

Replying to Don-vip:

The "Window" menu seems universal. I suggest to keep it. ...
Concerning the name, all English names suggested are fine so the translation should be our main concern. "Panel" is probably the easiest to translate in all languages and is short. ..

Fine.

Replying to michael2402:

For me, a window is something that I can move around the screen. The problem I see with just calling it window is, that most new users don't know that you can move them around. ...
Photoshop calls them "Panel"
So we are left with some more names to confuse people: "panel", "dockable panel", "dialog", "dockable dialog", ... ;-)
Edit 2: ... We should always use the same word in very translated language.

This responsibility is more on the translators side. For european languages it seems easy. But languages from overseas might have other values. The source code can only encourage unity with being very strict in its wording.

We will have the same problem again if we mix "Panel" with several native words for panel...

How can this happen?

Replying to stoecker:

German translation would be "Panel" and plural "Panels" then, right? http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Panel

Nein, das ist die Übersetzung der falschen Bedeutung: http://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/panel
Paneel → Paneele wäre die richtige Form. Wobei mir Feld oder Tafel besser gefallen würde.

Der vierte Treffer in http://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/panel weist auf "die Tafel". Das wäre noch in Ordnung.

Replying to michael2402:

Paneel/Paneele is acceptable. The problem with "Feld" and "Tafel" is that they do not relate to the English word. It will be hard to tell this to translators and even harder for people that are not translators but simply use JOSM in a multi-lingual setting (e.g. English tutorials, ...)

The word "Feld" is bad, because it is already used in Eingabefeld or Dialogfeld.
Why does "Tafel" for German inflict the international use?

Replying to bastiK:

Replying to Don-vip:

If we change it to "panel", I don't know how to rephrase this. "Toggle panels panel" is not great :D

There may be better wordings, but "Panel area" would be fine. (With [13090])

Similar to above "area" is a already used in OSM for an object and therefore not the best option to describe the GUI.

Possible terms for the group of panels visible on the right-hand-side are

  • Panel stack according to hay stack or
  • Dock as harbour for the panels that do not float. Dock has the advantage of being only one word. And "Toggle dock" seems good to describe an action.


Replying to Klumbumbus:

Replying to bastiK:

What about "Bearbeitungsfeld" or "Arbeitsfeld", which can optionally be shortened to "Feld": "Ebenen-Bearbeitungsfeld", "Minikarten-Feld", "Bearbeitungsfeld für Kartenzeichenstile", ...

"Arbeitsfeld" is good. This provides also a good wording as a whole with the other GUI elements (where the german wording in JOSM and the wiki is a mess atm too):

  • up "Hauptwerkzeugleiste",
  • left "Arbeitswerkzeugliste" which includes the "Arbeitsmodi" in the upper part and the buttons for the "Arbeitsfelder" in the lower part
  • right "Arbeitsfelder"

When the "Arbeit-" prefix fits for three parts of the screen it may be confusing. In original English as in the translations different terms should be used for different things. The more distinct, the better.

Replying to Klumbumbus:

The word "Window" is kept for "classic" not dockable windows like the preferences, download or relation editor windows.

We should avoid "Window" as much as possible because it in-distinctively fits for everything. And because it was used for the 'things' on the right hand side. Calling the RE now "Relation Editor window" will confuse existing help forum content with the former "Relation window".

So "Dialog" should be used to name the other floating GUI items. The changeset thing is currently named "Changeset Management Dialog" which is fine.

Conclusion so far:

  • Panel for each of the single dockable windows.
  • Dock for the whole toggable group on the right-hand-side.
  • Keep Dialog for the rest, independently if modal or not.

It would be fine if this could be decided timely because other bugs (#15918) depend on it.

comment:51 Changed 12 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0218.03

comment:52 Changed 11 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0318.04

comment:53 Changed 10 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0418.05

comment:54 Changed 9 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0518.06

comment:55 Changed 8 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0618.07

comment:56 Changed 7 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0718.08

comment:57 Changed 6 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0818.09

comment:58 Changed 5 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.0918.10

comment:59 Changed 4 months ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 18.1019.01

Postpone after we sort out transifex migration issues

comment:60 Changed 4 weeks ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 19.0119.02

comment:61 Changed 14 hours ago by Don-vip

Milestone: 19.0219.03

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