Crossing preset: Change label for crossing_ref

[osmuser63783@…]

In preset "Highways/Waypoints/Pedestrian crossing", the form field that corresponds to crossing_ref is labelled "Crossing type name (UK)". This is misleading. According to Taginfo, only 4% of uses of this key are in the UK (source: compare ​1 and ​2). The tag is widely used in France and Germany, among others.

A good label might be "Local name for crossing type".

Relevant forum discussion: ​https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/whats-up-with-the-crossing-ref-tag/105293

Revision:18822
Build-Date:2023-08-30 11:52:18

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (18822 en_GB) Mac OS X 12.6.3

[taylor.smock]

Looking at the wiki page history, I am strongly disinclined to make changes right now. Part of the problem is that we've had the same definition in JOSM for close to a 15 years (see #2135/r1374).

TBH, I'd rather see it deprecated. With that said, I'll give the wiki page some time to stabilize before I make a decision. I like to see the wiki not have changing tag definitions. I usually give changes to the wiki ~6 months with no changes to the meaning of the tag before I consider it to be stable.

[osmuser63783@…]

Thank you for looking at this.

The approved proposal from 2008 says crossing_ref is "the traditional, region-specific reference, such as zebra or pelican". There is no mention of the UK in the key definition, only for some of the tags (e.g. pelican, toucan).

To be honest I think the UK bit in the JOSM label was only ever a misunderstanding from an English speaker, maybe an American or a Brit, who was under the false impression that referring to crossings as zebra crossings is somehow a uniquely British thing, when they have been known as Zebrastreifen in Germany for as long as they have existed (since the 1950s), and probably in other countries too.

But I understand your argument about letting the discussion settle before making changes to a 15 year old label. I'll report back here if there is anything else to add :-)

[skyper]

See also this ​recent discussion in German and #23290 which introduced a warning.

[skyper]

And ​another thread. Changing it to crossing=zebra should not be the goal.
Usually the wiki reflects the current usage without considering the approved or intended meaning (which I find problematic but that is life). Why do we make an exception here?

[taylor.smock]

Ticket retargeted after milestone closed

[stoecker]

Milestone closed.

[taylor.smock]

Ticket retargeted after milestone closed

[taylor.smock]

In 19164/josm:

Fix #23251: Crossing preset: Change label for crossing_ref

The crossing_ref tag is not constrained to the UK.

[skyper]

I think you forgot to change one line​ (L1534).

[taylor.smock]

In 19202/josm:

Fix #23251: Crossing preset: Change label for crossing_ref

This is a followup of r19164 to change another crossing_ref reference.