[WIP-Patch] Update leisure values in sport presets and add one for ice_rink (Was: Remove horse_riding (facility) from preset for sport=horse_racing)

[Hufkratzer]

What steps will reproduce the problem?

1. create a node or an area for a racecourse
2. select the preset for sport=horse_racing
3. open the list for "Type"

What is the expected result?

You should only see things that can be used for horse racing

What happens instead?

The first entry in the list is horse_riding (facility), see attached screenshot

Please provide any additional information below. Attach a screenshot if possible.

Tag ​leisure=horse_riding shall not be used for racecourses, these should instead be mapped as ​leisure=sports_centre, see also ​wiki/Riding.

We currently have:

• 108 sport=horse_racing + leisure=horse_riding
• 445 sport=horse_racing + leisure=pitch
• 589 sport=horse_racing + leisure=sports_centre
• 121 sport=horse_racing + leisure=stadium
• 4533 sport=horse_racing + leisure=track

I havn't looked at all the 108 sport=horse_racing + leisure=horse_riding, only at a few; it seems most should rather be tagged with sport=equestrian + leisure=horse_riding, but some also with sport=horse_racing + leisure=sports_centre, example ​Hypodrome de Jallais.

CAUTION: The list of types for sport=horse_racing is currently the same as the one for sport=equestrian, but for sport=equestrian horse_riding (facility) shall remain in the list (see attached screenshot)! You have to make separate lists (split chunk id="riding_surface" somehow.)

A validator warning "suspicious tag combination - sport=horse_racing together with leisure=horse_riding" would also be helpful.

(The combination sport=horse_racing + leisure=pitch is also quite suspicious, but there are so many of them and I havn't looked at a lot of them yet; so I leave them for later perhaps.)

URL:https://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk
Repository:UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Last:Changed Date: 2022-01-02 21:24:43 +0100 (Sun, 02 Jan 2022)
Build-Date:2022-01-02 20:26:19
Revision:18360
Relative:URL: ^/trunk

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (18360 en) Windows 7 64-Bit
OS Build number: Windows 7 Home Premium (7601)
Memory Usage: 292 MB / 681 MB (130 MB allocated, but free)
Java version: 1.8.0_201-b09, Oracle Corporation, Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
Look and Feel: com.sun.java.swing.plaf.windows.WindowsLookAndFeel
Screen: \Display0 1024×768 (scaling 1.00×1.00)
Maximum Screen Size: 1024×768
Best cursor sizes: 16×16→32×32, 32×32→32×32
System property file.encoding: Cp1252
System property sun.jnu.encoding: Cp1252
Locale info: en_DE
Numbers with default locale: 1234567890 -> 1234567890
Dataset consistency test: No problems found

Map paint styles:
- https://github.com/bastik/mapcss-tools/raw/osm/mapnik2mapcss/osm-results/mapnik.zip
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/Osmc&zip=1

Validator rules:
+ https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Rules/SuspiciousSwimming_Pool&zip=1
+ G:\JOSM18360\horse_ridiing.zip

Last errors/warnings:
- 00022.916 W:  Greenhouse Horticulture: Could not get presets icon presets/greenhouse_horticulture.png
- 00022.950 E: Failed to locate image 'presets/garages.png'
- 00022.951 W:  Garages: Could not get presets icon presets/garages.png
- 00022.976 E: Failed to locate image 'presets/interpolation.png'
- 00022.977 W:  Address Interpolation: Could not get presets icon presets/interpolation.png
- 00022.997 E: Failed to locate image ''
- 00022.997 W: [RELATION] Site: Could not get presets icon 
- 01661.575 E: Failed to locate image ' '
- 01661.717 E: Failed to locate image '[[Image(pond.png)]]'
- 01661.751 E: Failed to locate image '[[Image(oil-palm.png)]]'

[Hufkratzer]

horse_riding should not be in list for sport=horse_racing

[Hufkratzer]

horse_riding should remain in list for sport=equestrian

[skyper]

patch

[skyper]

josm_21907.patch​ changes the values and includes a warning. Additionally, it adds icons for the values and changes some "Centre" to "Center" in the gui. An icon for ice_rink would be nice but it is missing so far along side with a preset for leisure=ice_rink.

[Hufkratzer]

I am happy with that patch. It does what I asked for above.

Just one more extra note, because you have renamed some "Centre" to "Center":
In the US they call "Horse Riding" "Horseback Riding", compare

• ​https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/3189 Change label for leisure=horse_riding

So maybe you also want to change "Horse Riding" to "Horseback Riding" (or "Horseback Riding Facility")?

[skyper]

Thanks for the hint. I'll try to remember and include it in the next update of the patch.
Mean-while I've created #21963.

[skyper]

ice_rink icon (own work)

[skyper]

I have created an icon for ice_rink:

(16px), (64px)

[skyper]

I do not like the green background anymore. How about a grey or brownish background with similar shape like the outline of the rink (elliptic)?

[skyper]

preset part version 2 including changes for #21963 and #21964

[skyper]

Please, test josm_21907_preset_v2.patch​ which includes changes for #21963 and #21964.

• centre -> Center
• add icons and presets for leisure=ice_rink and leisure=sports_hall
• add icons to combos of leisure=* and multiselects sport=*
• some smaller updates and fixes

Last piece missing is the mappaint style.

[Hufkratzer]

What I found so far:

---

sport=dog_racing

I have some doubts that Pitch and Sports Hall make sense here. It seems that a dog_racing course is too large, examples:

• ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/554515879
• ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/289927249

Compare ​wiki/Tag:sport=dog_racing.

We have:

• 397 nwr[sport=dog_racing][leisure]
• 154 are tracks
• 141 are pitches
• 49 are sports_centres
• 33 are dog_parks
• 15 are stadiums
• 5 are park, recreation_ground or garden

I have looked at some of the nwr[sport=dog_racing][leisure=pitch] and it seems to me that they should have better be tagged with leisure=track, leisure=dog_park, amenity=animal_trainung or sport=dog_training.

---

sport=running

is rarely done on pitches, see

• ​taginfo
• carto discussion ​comment ff

---

leisure=bowling_alley

What about a new preset for ​wiki/Tag:leisure=bowling_alley?
It's used 4k times and this is much more than 1k

(
nwr[leisure=sports_centre][sport~"9pin"];
nwr[leisure=sports_centre][sport~"10pin"];
)

---

leisure=fishing

should get a name like

• Fishing Place ​OSM wiki
• Fishing Area ​OSM website or
• Fishing Spot ​iD

(physical tag, not just the activity)

---

amenity=gambling

should get a name like Gambling Hall (physical tag, not just the activity), compare

• ​OSM wiki
• ​iD

---

Tag names with lowercase

There are still many tag names that consist of more than one word and where not all words begin with a capital letter, e.g.

• Key cutter (Key Cutter in ​iD)
• Metal construction
• Camp pitch (Camp Pitch in ​iD)
• Animal boarding (Animal Boarding Facility in ​iD)
• Public bookcase (Public Bookcase in ​iD)
• Language school (Language School in ​iD)
• ... You can most easily find them if you look at the pulldown menues in JOSM.

I don't know if that's intentional and what the rule is, when the following words should be capitalized (as it is done in most cases) and when not.

---

_{I need a break.}

[skyper]

Thanks.
The current patch is already quite big. I'd prefer to have separate tickets for

• leisure=bowling_alley
  • we need an icon and the usual limit in JOSM is 10000 as we have the option of external presets like Presets/NewTags
  • See also #21742
• the question about upper or lower cases of labels
  • once answered it should be documented under DevelopersGuide/DefaultPresets
  • the patch changes only those words which are changed anyway or where a mix within a single preset was present (might be even too much already)

[skyper]

new icons leisure=ice_rink and leisure=sports_hall

[skyper]

patch including updated preset, style and validator patches

[skyper]

The new patch​ includes all parts except the two new icons​
Included are fixes for #21963 and #21964.

Regarding presets, I fixed some error of previous patch​ like missing text=*, one wrong icon path, icon size, capital letters of labels. Additionally, I added lit=* to some leisure=*, removed pitch from running preset and updated the labels of amenity=gambling and leisure=fishing.

I am not sure about the values of leisure=* for dog_racing as e.g. pitch or sports_hall could be places for training but I do not know enough about the sport.

Please, test it.

[Hufkratzer]

What I found so far:

• In menu Sports>Motor Sport now you have "Motor Sport" (instead of "Motorsport"), but in chunk id="sport" you still only use display_value="Motor"

• chunk id="sport" contains display_value="Model_aerodrome" (instead of "Model Aerodrome")

• I wonder why the preset for leisure=pitch contains sport=golf" and the preset for sport=golf contains leisure=pitch. ​wiki/Tag:leisure=pitch says: "A golf course should be tagged as leisure=golf_course rather than as a pitch." and ​wiki/Tag:leisure=golf_course says: "Do not use sport=golf or leisure=pitch on this tag or any of the details tags!". But I have never mapped a golf course, maybe it is needed for something.

• Horse related stuff:
  • In the Equestrian preset:
    • Please add default="pitch" (Riding Arena), see ​taginfo.
    • Is it possible to have display_value="Riding Arena" for leisure=pitch? Compare ​iD preset. In the current version in German "pitch" is translated to "Reitplatz", but in English it shows only up as "pitch" (untranslated).
    • Please add values_searchable="true" to achieve that this preset is found if someone searches for "horse" or "riding", see (1) below (or do some other trick to achieve that), compare related ​iD-issue #413.
    • Please add something like <preset_link preset_name="Horse Racing" text="For horse racing use different tags:" />
  • In the Horse Racing preset:
    • Please add something like <preset_link preset_name="Equestrian" text="For other equestrian sports use different tags:" />
  • In the Horseback Riding Facility preset:
    • Please add something like

      <preset_link preset_name="Equestrian" text="For a riding arena use different tags:" />
      <preset_link preset_name="Horse Racing" text="For a racecourse use different tags:" />
      

(1) Searching for "horse" or "riding" should find the Equestrian preset

[Hufkratzer]

_{The content of this comment was integrated into the previous one}

[Hufkratzer]

illustrative search dialog

[Hufkratzer]

List of sports no longer sorted correctly

[Hufkratzer]

The list of sports is no longer sorted correctly (alphabetically):

[skyper]

Nothing was changed concerning sorting.
Reasons could be:

• the incomplete translation for new strings not published and therefore not translated, yet
• problems caused by using display_value
• user settings as sorting can be disabled in general in tagging presets preferences

Does it work with en_US?

---

• Thanks for the hints about the smaller issues in display values
• I am not much into golfing but I can think of a driving-range and the practice putting area as pitches
• I am fine with default, some preset-links and will take a look at the combos/multiselects regarding search_value. For a different display_value, I cannot use the chunk but that is ok but I do not like "Arena". Can we find a different word?

[Hufkratzer]

Sorting does also not work in English:

My taggingpreset.sortvalues=true (unchanged) and I don't think it is caused by incomplete translations because with the internal defaultpresets.xml (not using display_value) the sorting works (also in German). It looks like the sorting simply ignores display_value.

---

I know that "Arena" can also have another meaning ​wikipedia, but nevertheless, from what I have seen in the web, in US-English also smaller riding arenas are called "arenas" (or sometimes "rings"). There are ​outdoor (riding) arenas and covered or indoor (riding) arenas (indoor = ​riding hall).

Here are some webpages/links where you can see it yourself:

• ​http://www.inspiredhomeideas.com/horseback-riding-ranch-horse-stables-barns-and-facilities/
• ​https://www.trevellastables.com/arenas.html
• ​https://www.highfieldequestrian.com/2020/08/20/how-big-should-a-horse-riding-arena-be/
• ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/39.79789/-75.36980
• ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/33.66121/-83.93408
• ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/34.18523/-118.58518

In British English they can alternatively be called "(indoor/outdoor) schools", but we are making non-British presets here, the ​iD preset uses name "Riding Arena" and in the wiki we call them ​riding arenas too. I think it would be confusing to use another word in JOSM and I also can't propose one.

[Hufkratzer]

shows sorting bug in english

[skyper]

Well, I do not find a better word, either. So "Horseback Riding Arena" should do.

Thanks for the feedback on sorting. As it looks like the display values are not used for sorting, this is beyond the scope of this ticket and needs to be fixed/added in core.
Please open a new ticket. Thanks.

[skyper]

version 3 includes discussed minor enhancement and wording

[skyper]

Next version to test is josm_21907_v3.patch​. It should solve all minor problems except for sorting sport=*.
Would it make sense for sport=* to disable sorting and a better grouping of values like ball sports and individual sports?

[Hufkratzer]

I have two complaints about the Equestrian preset:

• You have moved Horseback Riding Facility to the end of the list, but I think it belongs at 2nd position after Horseback Riding Arena and before Sports Center because it is less frequently used than Horseback Riding Arena but more frequently than leisure=sports_centre + sport=equestrian (see ​carto comment), so it should look like
  

• You havn't added values_searchable="true" to the combo, so if one searches for "horse" or "riding" or "horse riding" this preset isn't found. It should work like this:
  
  See also comment:13.

Can this be improved or was that intentionally?

---

EDIT / Addition:

A further improvement may be to make "Horseback Riding" kind of an alias to "Equestrian", like this:

Advantages:

• Search for "horse", "riding" or "horse riding" always lists preset "Equestrian / Horseback Riding" at the beginning and before the one for "Horse Racing":
  
  
  This will hopefully prevent some mistaggings that currently may occur because when users want to map a riding arena they may not find this preset and then use "Horse Racing" or "Horseback Riding Facility" instead (frequently seen!).

• Unusual (lengthy) term "Horseback Riding Arena" can be avoided:
  

What do you think about this?

---

I haven't thought about grouping the sports values yet, I will have to look at that later.

[Hufkratzer]

Equestrian preset

[Hufkratzer]

this search should find Equestrian preset

[Hufkratzer]

sports menu with "horseback riding" as alias for equestrian sport

[Hufkratzer]

Equestrian preset with "horseback riding" as alias for equestrian sport

[Hufkratzer]

search dialog with "horseback riding" as alias for equestrian sport

[Hufkratzer]

alternative search dialog with "horseback riding" as alias for equestrian sport

[Hufkratzer]

Use “Mountain Biking” instead of "Mountainbiking", see

• ​https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/commit/98613d9a3970cf19954d9f9dcfd15f0c6e6a0a15#r63038191
• ​https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mountain-biking

[skyper]

Replying to Hufkratzer:

I have two complaints about the Equestrian preset:

• You have moved Horseback Riding Facility to the end of the list, but I think it belongs at 2nd position after Horseback Riding Arena and before Sports Center …

Sure, the order can be changed. In fact, I am not sure about the general order of the values for leisure=*. How about

1. special case
2. pitch
3. track
4. sports_hall
5. stadium
6. sports_centre

Plus, always have the default=* value in first place?

• You havn't added values_searchable="true" to the combo, so if one searches for "horse" or "riding" or "horse riding" this preset isn't found. …

Can this be improved or was that intentionally?

Yes, that was intentionally as I do not like to have all kind of sport presets triggering when searching for e.g. pitch or track.
With #14404 in mind, I do not like long item labels, either, and rather tend to added an additional <label />. Maybe, changing the value_context=* from riding to horseback riding or using name_context=* can solve it, too, but I have not tested it and I fear it would make more work for translators.

[Hufkratzer]

Replying to skyper:

Would it make sense for sport=* to disable sorting and a better grouping of values like ball sports and individual sports?

I don't know how you want to group values within a <multiselect />; but even if I did, the list of values within each group would then look unsorted in other languages, even if you manually sorted them in English.

[skyper]

I thought about horizontal lines as separator but that does not work. Ok, forget about grouping.

Regarding search expressions I tried different wordings for text in <preset_link /> and <label /> but it does not work. Using display_value does even hide the original value from search. Currently, the only possibility to find the preset in search is to play with the item's label or with values_searchable in this case.

[Hufkratzer]

extra preset for Horseback Riding Arena

[Hufkratzer]

Another idea: An extra preset for "Horseback Riding Arena" (like in ​iD):

• will be found if one searches for "horse" or "riding" or "horse riding"
• uses chunk "riding_surface" instead of "sport_surface"

Preset "Horseback Riding Facility"

• links to it instead of "Equestrian"
• additional (compare ​taginfo):

  <check key="sport" text="Equestrian Sport" value_on="equestrian" disable_off="true" icon="presets/sport/equestrian.svg" />
  

What do you think?

[Hufkratzer]

Shouldn't the presets "Climbing route" and "Climbing site" better be in menu "Sports/Sport Facilities"?

And shouldn't "route" and "site" be capitalized? As well as "water hazard" and "Driving range" in the "Golf" submenu?

[Hufkratzer]

Consider adding ​surface=woodchips to riding_surface and sport_surface. I know that it is sometimes used for riding arenas. In OSM it is used in combination with sport=* about 200 times, mainly with sport=running.

[Hufkratzer]

I think it is better to name the preset for leisure=horseriding Horseback Riding Center instead of Horseback Riding Facility because:

• Riding Center better distinguishes it from Riding Arena (tagged as pitch), so this may prevent some mistagging riding arenas with leisure=horse_riding. Facility is too general and ambiguous, as you can see on these webpages:
  • ​http://www.peacefulbaystables.com/our-facility.html
  • ​https://www.edwardsequestrianfacility.com/facilities--amentities
  • ​https://www.lancingequestrian.co.uk/Facilities
  • ​https://www.pontispool.co.uk/our-facilities/
• Center/Centre is used more often than Facility
  • According to ​https://www.bhs.org.uk/enjoy-riding/find-a-place-to-ride/results?cat=Riding+Centre of the the British Horse Society riding centres can be named differently and all these names can be found more often in OSM together with leisure=horse_riding:
    • 592 centre/center (466+126)
    • 421 farm/ranch (159+262)
    • 264 stables/stable (230+33)
    • 11 facility/facilities (10+1)
  • for use independant from OSM see ​Google Trends camparison

EDIT:
Corresponding iD issue: ​https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/issues/437

EDIT 2 (Dec 2022):
The iD preset for leisure=horse_riding was renamed Horseback Riding Center at the end of May 2022, and it seems that this has helped to greatly reduce the incorrect tagging of riding areas with leisure=horse_riding.

[Hufkratzer]

Replying to skyper:

Replying to Hufkratzer:

• You havn't added values_searchable="true" to the combo, so if one searches for "horse" or "riding" or "horse riding" this preset isn't found. …

Can this be improved or was that intentionally?

Yes, that was intentionally as I do not like to have all kind of sport presets triggering when searching for e.g. pitch or track.

Presets Skiing and Swimming have values_searchable="true"; they both show up if one searches for "park".

[Hufkratzer]

Update <link wiki=* /> in the golf presets Tee, Hole, ...; meanwhile they all have their own wiki pages.

[Hufkratzer]

Consider renaming these sports presets:

• Equestrian (adjective) -> Equestrian Sport (noun, sport), compare Motor Sport
• Skateboard (the board) -> Skateboarding (the sport), see
  • ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skateboarding
  • ​https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/skateboarding

[Hufkratzer]

Related bug: #22049

[Hufkratzer]

Preset Adult Gaming Center contains link to itself.

[skyper]

Sorry, I probably won't have much time for JOSM and/or OSM the next weeks.

[skyper]

Replying to Hufkratzer:

Replying to skyper:

Replying to Hufkratzer:

• You havn't added values_searchable="true" to the combo, so if one searches for "horse" or "riding" or "horse riding" this preset isn't found. …

Can this be improved or was that intentionally?

Yes, that was intentionally as I do not like to have all kind of sport presets triggering when searching for e.g. pitch or track.

Presets Skiing and Swimming have values_searchable="true"; they both show up if one searches for "park".

Well, it looks like it is the only solution, atm.

Replying to Hufkratzer:

Update <link wiki=* /> in the golf presets Tee, Hole, ...; meanwhile they all have their own wiki pages.

Sure.

Replying to Hufkratzer:

Consider renaming these sports presets:

• Equestrian (adjective) -> Equestrian Sport (noun, sport), compare Motor Sport
• Skateboard (the board) -> Skateboarding (the sport), see
  • ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skateboarding
  • ​https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/skateboarding

+1

Replying to Hufkratzer:

Preset Adult Gaming Center contains link to itself.

Should be removed.