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Opened 3 weeks ago

Closed 10 days ago

#20318 closed defect (fixed)

Asking to tag segregated=no on highway=footway bicycle=yes is pointless

Reported by: mkoniecz Owned by: team
Priority: normal Milestone: 21.01
Component: Core validator Version:
Keywords: template_report Cc:

Description (last modified by mkoniecz)

What steps will reproduce the problem?

  1. Create way with highway=footway bicycle=yes
  2. Run validator

What is the expected result?

Nothing, as in this case segregated=no is obvious (and that is why for example StreetComplete is not asking people to tag segregated)

After all, if bicycles would have its own designated space, then it would be bicycle=designated, right?

What happens instead?

JOSM spams "missing tag - Combined foot- and cycleway without segregated. (18)"

Please provide any additional information below. Attach a screenshot if possible.

See #17973

See https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25463963

See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:segregated#What_about_highway.3Dfootway_bicycle.3Dyes

Relative:URL: ^/trunk
Repository:UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Last:Changed Date: 2020-12-27 20:15:27 +0100 (Sun, 27 Dec 2020)
Revision:17426
Build-Date:2020-12-28 02:30:52
URL:https://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (17426 en_GB) Linux Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS
Memory Usage: 494 MB / 3974 MB (249 MB allocated, but free)
Java version: 11.0.9.1+1-Ubuntu-0ubuntu1.20.04, Ubuntu, OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM
Look and Feel: javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel
Screen: :0.0 1920×1080 (scaling 1.00×1.00)
Maximum Screen Size: 1920×1080
Best cursor sizes: 16×16→16×16, 32×32→32×32
Desktop environment: LXQt
Java package: openjdk-11-jre:amd64-11.0.9.1+1-0ubuntu1~20.04
Java ATK Wrapper package: libatk-wrapper-java:all-0.37.1-1
Environment variable LANG: en_GB.UTF-8
libcommons-logging-java: libcommons-logging-java:all-1.2-2
fonts-noto: fonts-noto:-
Dataset consistency test: No problems found

Attachments (0)

Change History (10)

comment:1 Changed 3 weeks ago by mkoniecz

Description: modified (diff)

comment:2 Changed 3 weeks ago by mkoniecz

Description: modified (diff)

comment:3 Changed 3 weeks ago by gaben

Why is it obvious?

comment:4 Changed 3 weeks ago by mkoniecz

In case of bicycles have its own separate, designated space, then correct access would be bicycle=designated, right?

I am not 100% sure, access tagging is complex so maybe asking on tagging mailing list would be a good idea.

comment:5 Changed 3 weeks ago by GerdP

I also think that a way with tags

bicycle=yes
foot=yes
highway=path

is not meant by the wiki about segregated. The wiki says "This key is used for designated combined cycle- and footways"
and I understand this as both foot and bicycle are designated, not just allowed.

comment:6 in reply to:  5 ; Changed 2 weeks ago by Klumbumbus

Replying to GerdP:

and I understand this as both foot and bicycle are designated, not just allowed.

The questioned rule of this ticket comes from #17973 when the wiki said "This key has no default value and should be tagged on all shared ways!". At this time I understood "all shared ways" as all combinations of bicycle=* with foot=*. Limiting it to designated values only probably makes more sense, as you say.

comment:7 Changed 2 weeks ago by Klumbumbus

Milestone: 21.01

comment:8 in reply to:  6 Changed 2 weeks ago by gaben

Replying to Klumbumbus:

At this time I understood "all shared ways" as all combinations of bicycle=* with foot=*.

You understood back then correctly the wiki has been edited since then :) I'm saying the same, it makes more sense this way.

Otherwise, I agree with @GerdP. The ticket's original example is problematic, because "segregated=no is obvious" is an error. Segregated should be null here if I can say that.

comment:9 Changed 2 weeks ago by Klumbumbus

I saw that the wiki was changed. But I think even back then with the old text it was already meant for ways with two designated values only.

comment:10 Changed 10 days ago by GerdP

Resolution: fixed
Status: newclosed

In 17457/josm:

fix #20318: Asking to tag segregated=no on highway=footway bicycle=yes is pointless

  • only complain about missing segregated tag if way is designated for bicycle AND foot

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