[PATCH] presets natural= tags updated to date. bare_rock, stone, ridge added. natural=land removed.

[frankthetankk]

Hello. I feel like that the internal presets needs some updating compared to what is known on the wiki and taginfo. This is my attempt at updating all the natural= tag keys within the presets, while added three items. With comparing all the data on the wiki and taginfo I made the list of changes below.

Here is brief list of what I changed. I removed natural=land completely as it was deemed redundant. ​http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural=land
I added <label to all the natural= tags. I added missing links to spring,bay,water,beach,scree,scrub. I removed or added some element types. I added two items under geography/nature titled Bare Rock and Stone. I added one item under geography/geography titled Ridge.

Also, I found and removed a few extra white spaces so that the group tags would be more inline with the rest of document. As a brief explanation, those lines include the groups under routes annotation relations

[frankthetankk]

natural updates to presets 7334

[skyper]

Replying to frankthetankk:

Nice work, You learn fast.

<snip>

I removed or added some element types.

<snip>

Be careful with that and have a look at taginfo. Personally:

• I know springs and volcanoes mapped as area (closed way,relation).
• I would not remove type node from beach
• and I am unsure about water=*. There are still areas with bad coverage of satellite images, e.g. you might still add a pond as node.

Also, I found and removed a few extra white spaces so that the group tags would be more inline with the rest of document. As a brief explanation, those lines include the groups under routes annotation relations

Did not have a look at it on the whole file, yet, but your changes seem somehow incomplete as not only the intend for group needs to be adjusted but all the lines with in it, too.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

<snip>

I removed or added some element types.

<snip>

Be careful with that and have a look at taginfo. Personally:

• I know springs and volcanoes mapped as area (closed way,relation).

Following is for natural=spring as a closedway.
I was thinking what a spring actually is and I did some more investigation on spring with the wiki, taginfo, overpass data. I personally don't think spring should have a closedway element, although, we should consider adding relation element. On the wiki itself it describes spring as "A spring is a point where where water flows", also the wiki says "Use natural=water if there is a significant water pool around the spring", which makes sense thinking what a spring is and how to map it. Taginfo has spring at 48 689 nodes and 625 ways.
Here are some examples of spring tagged on a closed way that should either be tagged in different way, some should be tagged with water while some are tagged on a building and some should've been left as a node.

• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/279940979 Horseshoe Spring, perhaps instead tagged with a node and water.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/27750092 perhaps instead tagged with a node and water.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/250054490 McGill Spring, ​http://www.elynevada.net/thingstodo/Outdoor/mcgillpool.html This is an area of water that has swimming available.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/250054495 Schoolhouse Spring, perhaps instead tagged with a node and water.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/123727864 perhaps instead tagged with a node and water.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288597026 St Cybi's Well, this is well. perhaps incorrectly tagged. should've been ​http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Well
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/68303699 incorrect size building with spring. perhaps instead tagged with a node?
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1084186 here is a relation site. Not sure what to think of this one.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100547648 The Red Well, perhaps instead tagged with a node. Says Local knowledge, but does look like grass, so no water is needed here.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1676344039 on the spring wiki, this is the "fontaine du Vaucluse". Appears to be tagged correctly.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/90595101 Source des Célestins, building. ​http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfq4xr_vichy-source-des-celestins_travel video of it, ​http://www.vichyvirtuel.com/celestins.html pictures. Area is incorrectly tagged as a spring.
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/101224268 seems incorrect here
• ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77066092 Fosse Dionne, ​http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Tonnerre_-_Fosse_Dionne_13.jpg image of it. perhaps instead tagged with a node and water.

I will look into volcano but I suspect the similar results. I will look into the others you mentioned as well.

Thanks skyper, you've been helpful in my eager to learn.

[Don-vip]

Be careful with wordings, too, there's a typo in first one:

A point where where water flows..

[frankthetankk]

Replying to Don-vip:

Be careful with wordings, too, there's a typo in first one:

A point where where water flows..

You're right. Sorry, this was a copy/paste from the wiki. I will attempt to patch fix that in the coming days.

[skyper]

Replying to frankthetankk:

Replying to skyper:

<snip>

I removed or added some element types.

<snip>

Be careful with that and have a look at taginfo. Personally:

• I know springs and volcanoes mapped as area (closed way,relation).

Following is for natural=spring as a closedway.
I was thinking what a spring actually is and I did some more investigation on spring with the wiki, taginfo, overpass data. I personally don't think spring should have a closedway element, although, we should consider adding relation element. On the wiki itself it describes spring as "A spring is a point where where water flows", also the wiki says "Use natural=water if there is a significant water pool around the spring", which makes sense thinking what a spring is and how to map it. Taginfo has spring at 48 689 nodes and 625 ways.

Ok, you are right about springs. There is some confusion and it seems to be mixed up with fountains. As it is clearly stated on the wiki page we could think about a validator warning when used on ways/relations.

I will look into volcano but I suspect the similar results.

Yeah, similar to above.

I will look into the others you mentioned as well.

This is overall a question of restricting or liberation.

• all closedway probably need relation, aswell
• node is often used even for areas with bad/no aerial images.

One more point:

• I would not mention snow as single source for glaciers but rather not mention it at all. Glaciers are a complex issue and definitely not only the product of snow.

I had another look at the intend and there are irregularities from <group name="Annotation" icon="presets/addresses.png"> on. The intend for group is two space and everything below has an intend of four up to this line.

[skyper]

indent patch

[skyper]

Replying to skyper:

I had another look at the intend and there are irregularities from <group name="Annotation" icon="presets/addresses.png"> on. The intend for group is two space and everything below has an intend of four up to this line.

I tried to unify the indent, in order to have two white spaces for the chunks on top and for group and everything else with four. On the rush I also unified the ending of the lines and removed some empty line. The patch is hard to read but here​ you go.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

Replying to skyper:

I had another look at the intend and there are irregularities from <group name="Annotation" icon="presets/addresses.png"> on. The intend for group is two space and everything below has an intend of four up to this line.

I tried to unify the indent, in order to have two white spaces for the chunks on top and for group and everything else with four. On the rush I also unified the ending of the lines and removed some empty line. The patch is hard to read but here​ you go.

I am having an extremly hard time time to find a way or program with Windows to "apply a patch file" I can't figure it out so that I can easily view your changes vs the default presets file. Can you help me in directing me how to with Windows? Sorry and thanks.

[Don-vip]

Replying to frankthetankk:

I am having an extremly hard time time to find a way or program with Windows to "apply a patch file"

Have you tried ​TortoiseSVN? It's probably the best SVN client for Windows.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to Don-vip:

Replying to frankthetankk:

I am having an extremly hard time time to find a way or program with Windows to "apply a patch file"

Have you tried ​TortoiseSVN? It's probably the best SVN client for Windows.

I checked out your link. Yeah I already have it installed. I remember that I briefly tried to figure out how to use TortoiseSVN couple weeks ago, but I couldn't figure out how to set it up efficiently so that it'll help me with JOSM coding. I understand you're too busy to deal with this, but when you have time to, Do you have any tips for me or a brief tutorial on how I can setup TortoiseSVN with JOSM? I had some trouble setting this up myself. At this time I mostly want to work on the presets until I learn more.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to frankthetankk:

Replying to Don-vip:

Replying to frankthetankk:

I am having an extremly hard time time to find a way or program with Windows to "apply a patch file"

Have you tried ​TortoiseSVN? It's probably the best SVN client for Windows.

I checked out your link. Yeah I already have it installed. I remember that I briefly tried to figure out how to use TortoiseSVN couple weeks ago, but I couldn't figure out how to set it up efficiently so that it'll help me with JOSM coding. I understand you're too busy to deal with this, but when you have time to, Do you have any tips for me or a brief tutorial on how I can setup TortoiseSVN with JOSM? I had some trouble setting this up myself. At this time I mostly want to work on the presets until I learn more.

I worked on TortoiseSVN some more and I still can't get it to work. Best I got was that it rejected my patch hunks and I cant figure out why. Having a tough time trying to "apply a patch file". I know that I could work on projects much faster once I knew how to figure it out. This ​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdPFxBRIH8 helped me, but it's not enough.

[skyper]

Replying to frankthetankk:

I checked out your link. Yeah I already have it installed. I remember that I briefly tried to figure out how to use TortoiseSVN couple weeks ago, but I couldn't figure out how to set it up efficiently so that it'll help me with JOSM coding. I understand you're too busy to deal with this, but when you have time to, Do you have any tips for me or a brief tutorial on how I can setup TortoiseSVN with JOSM? I had some trouble setting this up myself. At this time I mostly want to work on the presets until I learn more.

I worked on TortoiseSVN some more and I still can't get it to work. Best I got was that it rejected my patch hunks and I cant figure out why. Having a tough time trying to "apply a patch file". I know that I could work on projects much faster once I knew how to figure it out. This ​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdPFxBRIH8 helped me, but it's not enough.

Just by chance that you try to apply my patch. Please, do not care about, as defaultpresets.xml did change quite a bit this one will probably not apply completely and is outdated in some parts. Gonna try to rework it as separate patch if needed/wanted.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

Replying to frankthetankk:

I checked out your link. Yeah I already have it installed. I remember that I briefly tried to figure out how to use TortoiseSVN couple weeks ago, but I couldn't figure out how to set it up efficiently so that it'll help me with JOSM coding. I understand you're too busy to deal with this, but when you have time to, Do you have any tips for me or a brief tutorial on how I can setup TortoiseSVN with JOSM? I had some trouble setting this up myself. At this time I mostly want to work on the presets until I learn more.

I worked on TortoiseSVN some more and I still can't get it to work. Best I got was that it rejected my patch hunks and I cant figure out why. Having a tough time trying to "apply a patch file". I know that I could work on projects much faster once I knew how to figure it out. This ​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdPFxBRIH8 helped me, but it's not enough.

Just by chance that you try to apply my patch. Please, do not care about, as defaultpresets.xml did change quite a bit this one will probably not apply completely and is outdated in some parts. Gonna try to rework it as separate patch if needed/wanted.

Yeah I am currently trying to apply your patch, but one line at a time cause I cant figure out SVN applying patch file yet. I would appreciate it if you could supply me with the most current presets with the indent unified. Thank you

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

Replying to skyper:

I had another look at the intend and there are irregularities from <group name="Annotation" icon="presets/addresses.png"> on. The intend for group is two space and everything below has an intend of four up to this line.

I tried to unify the indent, in order to have two white spaces for the chunks on top and for group and everything else with four. On the rush I also unified the ending of the lines and removed some empty line. The patch is hard to read but here​ you go.

Are the indent for <optional> and <roles> two spaces or four spaces?

Is the general idea that the first layer is two spaces with each layer after the first is four indent spaces, except with <optional> and <roles> it is two spaces?

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

Replying to frankthetankk:

Replying to skyper:

<snip>

I removed or added some element types.

<snip>

Be careful with that and have a look at taginfo. Personally:

• I know springs and volcanoes mapped as area (closed way,relation).

Following is for natural=spring as a closedway.
I was thinking what a spring actually is and I did some more investigation on spring with the wiki, taginfo, overpass data. I personally don't think spring should have a closedway element, although, we should consider adding relation element. On the wiki itself it describes spring as "A spring is a point where where water flows", also the wiki says "Use natural=water if there is a significant water pool around the spring", which makes sense thinking what a spring is and how to map it. Taginfo has spring at 48 689 nodes and 625 ways.

Ok, you are right about springs. There is some confusion and it seems to be mixed up with fountains. As it is clearly stated on the wiki page we could think about a validator warning when used on ways/relations.

I will look into volcano but I suspect the similar results.

Yeah, similar to above.

I will look into the others you mentioned as well.

This is overall a question of restricting or liberation.

• all closedway probably need relation, aswell
• node is often used even for areas with bad/no aerial images.

One more point:

• I would not mention snow as single source for glaciers but rather not mention it at all. Glaciers are a complex issue and definitely not only the product of snow.

I had another look at the intend and there are irregularities from <group name="Annotation" icon="presets/addresses.png"> on. The intend for group is two space and everything below has an intend of four up to this line.

Here is my new patch. I downloaded defaultpresets.xml version 7357 and updated my natural patch edits, at the same time I updated it using skyper's unify patch. I did this line by line because I couldn't figure out how to apply patch files yet to working folder, it kept saying rejected hunks and I dunno why. Please let me what you think.

[frankthetankk]

natural updates plus unify to presets 7357

[bastiK]

I like the patch in general. Please do not change indentation in a patch (see DevelopersGuide/PatchGuide). For natural=spring, we should allow closed ways, as springs are often little ponds.

Could you make an update, please?

[frankthetankk]

natural updates to presets 7380 v1

[frankthetankk]

Replying to bastiK:

I like the patch in general. Please do not change indentation in a patch (see DevelopersGuide/PatchGuide). For natural=spring, we should allow closed ways, as springs are often little ponds.

Could you make an update, please?

natural_presets7380_v1.diff​ I left spring closedway in. Also, I corrected some spacing errors that I've found over the last week.

[bastiK]

In 7381/josm:

applied #10330 - presets natural= tags updated to date. bare_rock, stone, ridge added. natural=land removed. (patch by frankthetankk)

[bastiK]

Thanks for the patch! I've fixed natural=stone key and dropped the description label for landuse=forest as I think these are copy & paste errors.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to bastiK:

Thanks for the patch! I've fixed natural=stone key and dropped the description label for landuse=forest as I think these are copy & paste errors.

Whoops, sorry about the natural=stone. I was trying so hard not to make an error too. I understand about the landuse=forest. We need more details on what exactly it means.

It appears you added parts of the patch from ticket #10303. I am going to finish that patch up soon.

Thank you

[skyper]

Replying to bastiK:

I like the patch in general. Please do not change indentation in a patch (see DevelopersGuide/PatchGuide). For natural=spring, we should allow closed ways, as springs are often little ponds.

I did state above already in comment:2 but the ​wiki and frankthetankk convinced me that it is better to tag the spring as node and the pond with natural=water.

[skyper]

One more thing:

• If we only allow volcano on nodes we need to allow ridge on closed ways and relations as you need to be able to tag a crater.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

Replying to bastiK:

For natural=spring, we should allow closed ways, as springs are often little ponds.

I did state above already in comment:2 but the ​wiki and frankthetankk convinced me that it is better to tag the spring as node and the pond with natural=water.

I still agree with this. I can't find any evidence that supports tagging natural=spring as a closed way. Combined with natural=water seems like the newer standard.

[frankthetankk]

Replying to skyper:

One more thing:

• If we only allow volcano on nodes we need to allow ridge on closed ways and relations as you need to be able to tag a crater.

I am still not sure how I feel about ridge being a closed way yet. When thinking of what a mountain or hilltop ridge is in reality. Ridges in general don't seems to wrap around and close in on themselves. Although, we need to support mapping the crater rim. Messing with overpass scripts for ridge, I couldn't find a single case of a closedway. There is a ton of way for ridge. If we were to change ridge to closedway we would need to apply the same to cliff. My conclusion is to not add a closedway as it states in the wiki ​http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural=volcano#Crater_rim it encourages users to tag as a cliff or ridge if its large enough.

I support adding relation to cliff and ridge in this case.

[Don-vip]

In 7446/josm:

fix #10330 - allow relation for natural=ridge