josm is no longer showing hires Bing aerial imagery

[jose1711]

josm no longer loads high detailed aerial imagery in vienna, at or bratislava, sk (most likely other cities but i have checked these two). this is a "regression" of some sort although probably caused by microsoft (bing maps works fine, mobile client has the same issue as josm). i believe a message to bing maps team is required:

[Don-vip]

Works for me. Can you please:

• check you're using last version of JOSM and Java
• test with a new blank profile
• if it still does not work attach a screenshot and the first three blocks of Help -> Show Status report

Thanks

[jose1711]

josm bing imagery vs browser

[jose1711]

josm is 6388, jdk 7.45. new profile did not solve the issue. attaching screenshot of ​http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.13132/17.09817 for comparison.

Repository Root: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn
Build-Date: 2013-11-16 02:34:34
Last Changed Author: simon04
Revision: 6388
Repository UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
URL: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk
Last Changed Date: 2013-11-15 22:19:40 +0100 (Fri, 15 Nov 2013)
Last Changed Rev: 6388

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (6388 sk) Linux Arch Linux
Memory Usage: 239 MB / 1244 MB (156 MB allocated, but free)
Java version: 1.7.0_45, Oracle Corporation, Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM
VM arguments: [-Xmx1400M, -Dfile.encoding=cp1250, -Djosm.restart=true]

Plugin: CommandLine (29854)
Plugin: DirectDownload (29854)
Plugin: OpeningHoursEditor (29854)
Plugin: PicLayer (29854)
Plugin: RoadSigns (30034)
Plugin: SimplifyArea (30017)
Plugin: buildings_tools (30010)
Plugin: editgpx (29854)
Plugin: freemapkapor (50)
Plugin: gpsblam (29832)
Plugin: graphview (30041)
Plugin: kendzi3d (263)
Plugin: kendzi3d-jogl (32)
Plugin: livegps (29854)
Plugin: log4j (29853)
Plugin: measurement (29854)
Plugin: openstreetbugs (30004)
Plugin: openvisible (29854)
Plugin: reverter (30031)
Plugin: routing (29854)
Plugin: undelete (29854)
Plugin: walkingpapers (29854)

[jward101]

I noted this in the talk-au list last week. The highlights from there are as noted here. ​https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2013-December/010190.html

For Zoom Level 20 & 21 the tag files contain a "tile-info=no-tile" reference.

Possible source of problem has been linked in that thread: ​http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/live/en-US/8e2af97a-f5e5-4ae0-acec-562db7e134d0/why-is-it-that-the-bing-map-control-has-a-much-lower-resolution-than-the-website?forum=bingmapswindows8

[jward101]

We've got a circular reference happening here. Someone linked this ticket to the ​MSDN site I noted above and the following questions have been asked over there. I'm dropping them here for clarity (Point 3 looks like the most relevant to this ticket):

Ok, there is a couple of possible things here.

• The Bing Maps site usually only shows up to zoom level 19 and then switches to Birdseye. Zoom level 20 & 21 are not fully supported for aerial imagery and are mainly there as some customer applications need the ability to zoom in closer to show their own information (i.e. apps that map the inside of buildings).
• Which Bing Maps API/control are you using? It's possible that if you are using an old map control that it is not accessing the new imagery.
• Are you accessing the tiles directly like the josm app? If so how are you doing this? There is a supported method for doing this, which is more involved than simply using the tile URL's in your own app.

[j-e-d]

I confirm the described behavior in JOSM v6502 and also the latest v6559. When I zoom in I can see that JOSM switches to the hires Bing aerial imagery for a short moment but instantly switches back to the previously shown imagery. Has the root cause of the problem been identified in the meantime?

[jward101]

Hi j-e-d,

That is how I first noticed the problem. As a slow regression until I no longer had access to the Z20 tiles. I have confirmed the behaviour I have noted below in several browsers (Chrome/IE) and have cleared any cache before doing so.

I'm pretty sure its a Bing change that is the cause. I updated the ​MSDN Social site with a further update about 2 days ago as follows:

They should be the same resolution.

As a further update. At the time of reporting I could see, in the bing.com/maps site, that the aerial/birdseye view had a higher resolution (Zoom 20) imagery set. Right now, I no longer see that higher resolution in the site and it "matches" what I am seeing in the JOSM application.
So technically, the issue is resolved but I do wonder what has happened to the Zoom 20 image tiles served through the Bing maps consumer site and will they return?
My locality, if its relevant, is Brisbane, Australia.

It looks like the Z20 data has been pulled from all Bing assets (both web and API with the API being the first asset it was removed from).

[j-e-d]

Replying to jward101:

I'm pretty sure its a Bing change that is the cause.
...
It looks like the Z20 data has been pulled from all Bing assets (both web and API with the API being the first asset it was removed from).

Hi jward101,
I hope the JOSM team will be able to fix that problem with the help of MS. Otherwise a lot of people will not be able to contribute to OSM in the same quality as before. I will definitely stop all my work until this problem has been fixed.

[simon04]

Since this resolution problem isn't related to JOSM only, but to all other OSM editors as well as the Bing webpage, I don't think that necessarily JOSM developers should start investigations.

[Don-vip]

Replying to jward101:

It looks like the Z20 data has been pulled from all Bing assets (both web and API with the API being the first asset it was removed from).

That's also my impression. We should be able however to display Birdseye imagery using documented method: ​http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff701716.aspx

[jward101]

That does seem like a solution (is it complex? Will it cause more problems than it solves?) but I do wonder if this removal is temporary. Only Bing knows the answer to that I'm afraid.

[jward101]

Seems like Birdseye is not an option is the Licence on the Wiki is the authoritative source. Note the bolded section Restrictions on your use (First page).

​http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/d/d8/Bing_license.pdf

[Don-vip]

Damn, you're right. Well, nothing we can do then :(

[jose1711]

ok, so what are you trying to say is that all my previous josm edits using hi-res imagery are subject to removal due to breach of licensing terms??? if this is the case i quit with editing for good.

[stoecker]

Replying to jose1711:

ok, so what are you trying to say is that all my previous josm edits using hi-res imagery are subject to removal due to breach of licensing terms??? if this is the case i quit with editing for good.

If you used Bing in JOSM normally, then the license was ok. Now when Microsoft removed the higher resolution, we are not allowed to use other mechanisms to access that data. But this does not affect anything done in the past with the proper interface.

Microsoft can change conditions for our access any time, but only for the future, not for the past.