Cannot upload edited elements downloaded via query

[Filip009]

What steps will reproduce the problem?

1. Downloading data via overpass query. for example:

/*
This has been generated by the overpass-turbo wizard.
The original search was:
“name="OTP banka" or name="otp banka" or name="OTP Banka" in Slovakia”
*/
[out:json][timeout:25];
fetch area “Slovakia” to search in
{{geocodeArea:Slovakia}}->.searchArea;
gather results
(

nwr["name"="OTP banka"](area.searchArea);
nwr["name"="otp banka"](area.searchArea);
nwr["name"="OTP Banka"](area.searchArea);

);
print results
out geom;

2. Editing all of them
3. Trying to upload them
4. Then error shows, that there is error on line XY. There is not visible change in history of any element like when you edit downloaded things via download area. Also, when accepting error message and then looking for that way/node and dowloading area around it causes a conflict.

What is the expected result?

Normal upload. It was working few moths ago, when I work with it lastly.

What happens instead?

Error for each edited element. And after download area of edited node. It creates conflict.

Please provide any additional information below. Attach a screenshot if possible.

Relative:URL: ^/trunk
Repository:UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Last:Changed Date: 2023-08-29 13:38:40 +0200 (Tue, 29 Aug 2023)
Revision:18822
Build-Date:2023-08-30 01:30:57
URL:https://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (18822 en) Windows 10 64-Bit
OS Build number: Windows 10 Home 2009 (19045)
Memory Usage: 1234 MB / 4056 MB (470 MB allocated, but free)
Java version: 17.0.7+7-LTS, Azul Systems, Inc., OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM
Look and Feel: com.sun.java.swing.plaf.windows.WindowsLookAndFeel
Screen: \Display0 1920×1080 (scaling 1.00×1.00) \Display1 2715×1527 (scaling 1.25×1.25)
Maximum Screen Size: 2715×1527
Best cursor sizes: 16×16→32×32, 32×32→32×32
System property file.encoding: Cp1250
System property sun.jnu.encoding: Cp1250
Locale info: en_SK
Numbers with default locale: 1234567890 -> 1234567890
VM arguments: [-Dicedtea-web.bin.location=%UserProfile%\AppData\Local\Programs\OpenWebStart\javaws, -Djava.util.Arrays.useLegacyMergeSort=true, --add-exports=jdk.deploy/com.sun.deploy.config=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.desktop/javax.swing.text.html=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-reads=java.naming=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.action=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-reads=java.base=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.naming/com.sun.jndi.toolkit.url=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-opens=java.base/jdk.internal.loader=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.desktop/com.apple.eawt=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.desktop/sun.awt=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-opens=java.base/jdk.internal.ref=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.validator=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/com.sun.imageio.plugins.jpeg=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.base/sun.net.www.protocol.jar=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/jdk.internal.util.jar=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-opens=java.prefs/java.util.prefs=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.base/com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=javafx.graphics/com.sun.javafx.application=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-modules=java.scripting,java.sql,javafx.controls,javafx.media,javafx.swing,javafx.web, --add-exports=java.desktop/sun.awt.X11=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/sun.applet=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop,jdk.jsobject, --add-exports=java.base/sun.net.www.protocol.http=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-opens=java.base/java.lang=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.util=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/com.sun.imageio.spi=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-reads=java.desktop=ALL-UNNAMED,java.naming, --add-opens=java.base/java.nio=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.x509=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-opens=java.desktop/javax.imageio.spi=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.desktop/javax.jnlp=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.provider=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop]

Plugins:
+ FastDraw (35640)
+ MapRoulette (18)
+ PicLayer (1.0.1)
+ apache-commons (36003)
+ apache-http (35924)
+ buildings_tools (36011)
+ gridify (1606242219)
+ jna (36005)
+ mapathoner (1.4.3)
+ markseen (14)
+ photo_geotagging (35783)
+ photoadjust (36079)
+ reverter (35893)
+ todo (30306)
+ undelete (36011)
+ utilsplugin2 (36011)

Tagging presets:
+ https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Presets/OneClick&zip=1
+ https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Presets/Freemap&zip=1
+ https://raw.githubusercontent.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/main/dist/presets/nsi-josm-presets.min.xml

Map paint styles:
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/OsmcSKCZPL&zip=1
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/SlovakiaBicycleRoutes&zip=1
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/Lane_and_Road_Attributes&zip=1
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/Maxspeed&zip=1
- https://www.openrailwaymap.org/styles/electrified.zip
- https://github.com/MissingMaps/josm_styles/archive/master.zip
- https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/archive/josm_paint_inline_validation.zip
- https://www.openrailwaymap.org/styles/standard.zip
- %UserProfile%\Downloads\Beginner_paint_style.css

Validator rules:
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Rules/AtmsSlovakia&zip=1
- D:\Dokumenty\Mapovanie\Rules_FreemapSlovakia\Rules_FreemapSlovakia.validator.mapcss
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Rules/SlovakiaSpecificRules&zip=1
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Rules/ValidatingBuildingsInHOTTMProjects&zip=1

Last errors/warnings:
- 00000.345 W: extended font config - overriding 'filename.Mongolian_Baiti=monbaiti.ttf' with 'MONBAITI.TTF'
- 00007.538 W: java.nio.file.FileSystemException: %UserProfile%\AppData\Local\Temp\josm_exec_powershell_7668142251287357897.txt: The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process
- 00007.540 W: Unable to request certificate of https://grca.nat.gov.tw
- 00016.698 W: Failed to load Mappaint styles from '%UserProfile%\Downloads\Beginner_paint_style.css'. Exception was: java.nio.file.NoSuchFileException: %UserProfile%\Downloads\Beginner_paint_style.css
- 00016.698 E: java.nio.file.NoSuchFileException: %UserProfile%\Downloads\Beginner_paint_style.css
- 00276.504 W: Unable to find supported projection for layer Adresy. Using EPSG:3857.
- 00276.506 W: Unable to find supported projection for layer Adresy. Using EPSG:3857.
- 78045.590 E: Error header: Version is required when updating Node 158763983 at line 3, column 79
- 78045.774 E: org.openstreetmap.josm.io.OsmApiException: ResponseCode=400, Error Header=<Version is required when updating Node 158763983 at line 3, column 79>
- 78045.787 E: Bad Request - <html>The OSM server 'https://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/' reported a bad request.<br><br>Error message(untranslated): Version is required when updating Node 158763983 at line 3, column 79</html>

[stoecker]

The error message tells you everything you need to know. Your downloaded overpass data is incomplete and is missing at least the version of the elements. I'm not an overpass query expert, but I assume "out geom" only outputs the geometry and not all tags. To edit elements for upload that's not enough, you need full data for this.

[richlv]

Stumbled upon this same problem - replace that out line with:

(._;>;); out meta;

Given that JOSM has a built-in Overpass download functionality now, perhaps it could prevent uploading un-versioned objects - and maybe even provide some hint in the error message, like "if this came from Overpass, make sure 'out geom' is not used. If it is, replace with '(._;>;); out meta;'"?

[Filip009]

Yes, probably overpass turbo wizard has changed default output.

[dreua]

Had the same issue. To make matters worse I already put in a bit of work I didn't want to loose. (Additional download with "out meta" and manually resolving all the "conflicts" worked in the end.)

I think this is a usability issue and should be fixed. I specifically started using JOSM because I wanted to edit a list of very similar car sharing stations around the city. Downloading this via the default method does not work (too much data even for a small city) and therefore the query method was what I found to get this done. I won't be the first or the last person to copy and paste the query from overpass turbo, therefor an autofix or a warning when downloading data without version data would help a lot.

Btw: I just replaced geom with meta, not sure where or why the "(._;>;);" part is needed.

[dreua]

According to the Download documentation there is already an autofix in place for similar issues which is hopefully easy enough to extend.
(Josm Version 19265)

[stoecker]

If you use expert options you should know what you do. That's why they are expert options. We didn't separate expert und normal users in the interface for the sole fun of doing so.

[dreua]

I don't think that is an appropriate and respectful response to the issue I raised. I actually did explain why I needed to use the "expert" options. If there is a better way to do that kind of editing without "expert" mode, let me know.

[stoecker]

Don't like to get told you did something wrong? You ask who to do: It's called learning.

[richlv]

Heya, it seems like helping users a little bit would be nice, no matter expert mode or not.

I've been a happy JOSM user since 2008 or so, and it has become more and more user friendly - a big thanks to all the devs.
Perhaps a tiny bit of simplification here and there can lead to a more widespread usage of some features, or even some features migrating from expert to the normal mode :)

[stoecker]

This is a bug tracker and not a helping forum. And this specific user apparently opens an old ticket instead of going the proper procedure, directly starts to complain about feeling insulted by a normal response to this and seems unwilling to learn to properly use expert features. I don't have patience with such people - in my decades of doing this I learned that patience and helping in such cases is wasted time.

Regarding a little help: We have 2500 open tickets. I agree, a little help would be nice, but surely not in the direction you expect.

[dreua]

It seems like there has been a misunderstanding: I did not reopen or comment here for help, instead Google led me here and I figured it out myself with the help of what was previously written in this issue. Then I thought I'd like to contribute something back, inform you, the developers, that this issue is affecting more than one user. My goal here was solely to make the Josm experience a bit better for the next user coming the same way, not to get my personal problem fixed or to complain about my experience. (Sorry if that was unclear from my post.) I am willing to learn and I did learn the "expert" feature and I specifically explained why I, as a new and not yet expert user, needed to use it.

Having 2500 open tickets sounds like a lot, it would stress me out a lot indeed. (I am co-maintainer of a way smaller project and I know it can be stressful at times and there can be users with ridiculous ideas.)
Therefore I'd fully understand if you just responded in a more understanding way that there is currently too much going on or not enough resources to take care or keep track of this. I'd understand that.

Regarding help: I think the feeling and wording you put into your responses on such issues could have an impact. I might have started to work on this if I felt like there was an inviting culture here or if someone had suggested that help in implementing this would be welcome.

Anyway, I thank everyone here for creating Josm, from what I've seen so far it seems like a very powerful tool for OSM editing.

Best regards
David

[skyper]

Reopening a ticket which was closed over a year ago just to comment on is not the best way. You can always comment on tickets no matter what Status is set.

If you have more useful information it is usually better to create a new ticket and add links from each to the other.

Replying to dreua:

According to the Download documentation there is already an autofix in place for similar issues which is hopefully easy enough to extend.

A new enhancement ticket asking for extending the autofix will probably not be closed right away and patches are always welcome. Though, I fully understand @stoecker in the perspective that there is an expert mode for reason. Working with incomplete data is still dangerous if you do not know what you do and you can easily damage data despite many implemented checks and warnings, already. So you should know what you are doing and this starts with the proper overpass syntax.

Regarding, the overpass instances, the JOSM link under the export options should download proper data. Have you tried it? It actually recognizes the problem and has an autofix.

[stoecker]

Replying to dreua:

It seems like there has been a misunderstanding: I did not reopen or comment here for help, instead Google led me here and I figured it out myself with the help of what was previously written in this issue.

That was an answer to the suggestion from richlv.

Then I thought I'd like to contribute something back, inform you, the developers, that this issue is affecting more than one user. My goal here was solely to make the Josm experience a bit better for the next user coming the same way, not to get my personal problem fixed or to complain about my experience. (Sorry if that was unclear from my post.)

A good goal, but you did something essential wrong in this case: You reopened the old ticket! Reopening an old ticket means that you contradict the decision which was made. The main purpose for this is that if we fix a bug, the ticket author tests it and finds the fix is incomplete/bad, then he reopens the ticket. Usually that is after days or weeks and normally only by the people involved in the original ticket.

You could either have added a comment or created a new ticket which refers to this one. In your case a comment without reopening would have been best.

I am willing to learn and I did learn the "expert" feature and I specifically explained why I, as a new and not yet expert user, needed to use it.

That's good and I'm happy my assumption is wrong.

Having 2500 open tickets sounds like a lot, it would stress me out a lot indeed.

Well, it's not so stressing, as most of these are obscure cases, wishes, ideas and sometimes good ideas needing too much work and nobody implementing it. We probably could close them without much trouble, but I considered not to lose the work put into the tickets (some projects simply close tickets after a fixed time) as priorities can change over the time. But it would be helpful when more people would look at the tickets, find duplicates or tickets which have been solved in between and so on.

Most of the real work of JOSM goes into newer tickets (with sometimes overlooking some which should have been solved...). JOSM is extremely mature and there is seldom something which really MUST be handled.

Therefore I'd fully understand if you just responded in a more understanding way that there is currently too much going on or not enough resources to take care or keep track of this. I'd understand that.

Well, that's good. A lot of people come here expecting us to solve their problems and they don't understand that this simply isn't the right place. We have no time for this, although often we nevertheless sometimes help for simple cases.

Regarding help: I think the feeling and wording you put into your responses on such issues could have an impact. I might have started to work on this if I felt like there was an inviting culture here or if someone had suggested that help in implementing this would be welcome.

As your action was to reopen a solved ticket with no new information which could change the state of it (in case of new information a new ticket would have been better option), you got a short information and a ticket close. If you think that's not an "appropriate and respectful tone", then I'm not sure if what you expect is compatible with the way I will answer. I will not pamper anybody, but tell the truths as it is. And short, because longer texts like this one take a lot of time and all that time cannot be spent for anything else.

In the last 2 decades I also experienced many many times that people who complain about the tone or style of writing in nearly all cases only focus on such unimportant details, but never do any help. I've seen projects die because such discussion drove away all people who really did any work. So I'm extremely allergic to any such comments when they aren't really fact based (and yes, I can have inappropriate tone, but usually that's seldom) and especially when the arguments I brought are ignored.

Anyway this discussion is not really on topic in this ticket, so that's my last comment.