Validator / wrong Error for name with "ss"

[kurt@…]

What steps will reproduce the problem?

1. create a "place=locality"
2. give it the "name=Betteraysstrasse"
3. start validation > Error: street name contains ss (1)

What is the expected result?

no error, if the name is on a place node

What happens instead?

Please provide any additional information below. Attach a screenshot if possible.

check only valid for highway names in Germany

URL:https://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk
Repository:UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Last:Changed Date: 2020-09-20 10:43:08 +0200 (Sun, 20 Sep 2020)
Build-Date:2020-09-21 01:30:50
Revision:17047
Relative:URL: ^/trunk

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (17047 en) Windows 10 64-Bit
OS Build number: Windows 10 Home 2004 (19041)
Memory Usage: 821 MB / 910 MB (484 MB allocated, but free)
Java version: 1.8.0_251-b08, Oracle Corporation, Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
Look and Feel: com.sun.java.swing.plaf.windows.WindowsLookAndFeel
Screen: \Display0 1920x1080 (scaling 1.0x1.0)
Maximum Screen Size: 1920x1080
Best cursor sizes: 16x16 -> 32x32, 32x32 -> 32x32
Dataset consistency test: No problems found

Plugins:
+ ImportImagePlugin (35248)
+ OpeningHoursEditor (35414)
+ PicLayer (35405)
+ apache-commons (35524)
+ areaselector (368)
+ austriaaddresshelper (1597341117)
+ changeset-viewer (22)
+ ejml (35313)
+ geotools (35169)
+ graphview (35405)
+ jaxb (35092)
+ jogl (1.2.3)
+ jts (35122)
+ log4j (35092)
+ opendata (35513)
+ reverter (35554)
+ scripting (30798)
+ terracer (35499)
+ utilsplugin2 (35487)

Tagging presets:
+ D:\<user.name>\Osmand\JOSM_Include\Heritage_NRW_preset.xml
+ D:\<user.name>\Osmand\JOSM_Include\<user.name>_preset.xml
+ D:\<user.name>\Osmand\JOSM_Include\street_lamp_preset.xml
+ D:\<user.name>\Osmand\JOSM_Include\Heritage_Austria_preset.xml

Map paint styles:
+ D:\<user.name>\Osmand\JOSM_Include\Style\Styles_AreaHighway.mapcss
- D:\<user.name>\Osmand\JOSM_Include\Style\Style_30zone.mapcss

Validator rules:
+ https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Rules/GermanySpecific&zip=1
+ http://www.openrailwaymap.org/validator/de-openrailwaymap.validator.mapcss
- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Rules/OsmoseValidations&zip=1

Last errors/warnings:
- 00008.821 E: Failed to locate image 'presets/bridge.png'
- 00008.821 W:  Bridge: Could not get presets icon presets/bridge.png
- 00008.821 E: Failed to locate image 'presets/tunnel.png'
- 00008.821 W:  Culvert: Could not get presets icon presets/tunnel.png
- 00008.821 E: Failed to locate image 'presets/tunnel.png'
- 00008.821 W:  Doppelhaushälfte: Could not get presets icon presets/tunnel.png
- 00008.837 E: Failed to locate image 'styles/standard/misc/streetlamp.png'
- 00008.837 W:  Light source: Could not get presets icon styles/standard/misc/streetlamp.png
- 00008.852 E: Failed to locate image 'Icon_bda.png'
- 00008.852 W:  Heritage Austria: Could not get presets icon Icon_bda.png

[mdk]

The validation rules for 'ss' and 'ß' in (Street-)names depending on the location of the node. In Germany 'ss' is invalid, in Switzerland 'ß' instead. So it would be interesting which way or node (id) or in which location you try to edit.

[mdk]

I investigate a little bit. It may be the way ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4626986
The way is located in Gernamy (Landesstraße Betteraysstraße, Uedem, Kreis Kleve, North Rhine-Westphalia, 47589, Germany), so 'ß' would be correct.

description = Auf den Straßenschildern sind beide Schreibweisen - Betteraystraße bzw. Betteraysstraße - vorhanden.
loc_name = Betteraystraße
name = Betteraysstraße

Is this the correct object?

Edit: I saw you want to add a locality with the name=Betteraysstrasse
Also there is an other node 7935272885:
name=An der Betteraysstrasse
place=locality
source=alkisservices.krzn.de: ALKIS_Kleve

If you really need "Betteraysstrasse" in the name in Germany, you should ignore the validation message (after uploading !!)

[kurt@…]

The check should not be applied to "place=locality" ! For street names, ss is not used in Germany. For a "normal" name, like a locality or hamlet is is valid. No error flag should be set.

[stoecker]

Rules of German Gramar do not change with the use cases. Strasse isn't usually correct. There is no difference between a street name and a place name. In the majority of cases "Strasse" is an error. In the extrem seldom case that it is not ignore the validator.

In your example I'd say the validator is correct and you're wrong.

[kurt@…]

the last sentence is arrogant and wrong. The name "An der Betteraysstrasse" is official, Flurstück 05348400400172. The validator is wrong, the reality is .. real.

[stoecker]

Replying to kurt@…:

the last sentence is arrogant and wrong. The name "An der Betteraysstrasse" is official, Flurstück 05348400400172. The validator is wrong, the reality is .. real.

I doubt it. If the street nearby is name "Betteray(s)straße" then it's unlikely the "An der" is different. Did you verify that this "ss" is not an error, or an artifact of old computer systems? Did you verify that it is not due to upper case writing, because until recently there was no upper case ß? Or the entry was made by somebody who doesn't know German grammar rules (these people also exist in the government agences). In case of a violation of Grammar rules it is usually and error and not "reality".

[kurt@…]

feel free to verify it yourself by using the Flurstückskennzeichen 05348400400172 (Uedemerbruch (2484), Flur 4, Flurst. 172)

[Klumbumbus]

As already said it is very unlikely that the street should be called "Betteraysstraße" and the Flurstück "An der Betteraysstrasse". It is much more likely that the city/county/state administration made a mistake in their data. This is not uncommon and they correct data if you report it to them.

Anyway thats not the point here. Even if they really want the naming this way we would still not disable the test for place=locality because we would loose all true positives for only one false positive.

[mdk]

In General: Official Data sources are not always 100% correct!!!
In this case the same Street has two (official!) Street signs with different names! Why it is impossible that there is another wrong name for this place in the official data? Why is the name real? Only because it is written in an official database?
If you want to find the truth, you have to ask somebody who is responsible for assigning these names.