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Opened 4 years ago

Closed 4 years ago

Last modified 4 years ago

#11058 closed enhancement (fixed)

Data for the RoadSigns plugin for Belgium

Reported by: Polyglot Owned by: bastiK
Priority: normal Milestone:
Component: Plugin roadsigns Version:
Keywords: belgium Cc:

Description

The latest version of the XML can be found here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Belgium/Road_signs_plugin

I put it there so it would be more practical for other contributors to help with it.

I described here how I converted the files from SVG to PNG:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/34315

How do we handle attribution to commons.wikimedia?

Jo

Attachments (0)

Change History (28)

comment:1 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

comment:2 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Please use the original SVG version of the images, unless there are any problems with that. If you want me to add the preset to the plugin, I'll need either a patch to support the new syntax or a version in the current XML style.

Btw., it is an interesting idea to maintain the presets in a wiki.

comment:3 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I guess it would be even better to maintain them on the JOSM wiki. I chose the osm wiki because I thought more people would have an account there, but it would be easy to move them. It certainly makes supporting more countries an easier task.

I should have asked about SVG support before converting those files to PNG... It took me some effort: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/34315.

Not a big deal, it's a learning experience.

Anyway, I zipped the SVG files, but to my surprise that zip is even bigger than the one with the PNG files.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsAsSVG.zip

I converted the file on the wiki, so the new stuff should be 'excised' for the time being:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/roadsignpresetBE.xml

I plan to provide a patch, but I'll have to find out what's wrong with my Eclipse installation, if I want to do some actual plugin development. Maybe it only works with a JDK installed, I only have a JRE and I get a big fat error message when starting it. Java was started, but returned exit code=13 and a whole lot more, which for some reason can't be copy/pasted.

With the xml file as it is now, too many tags will be applied to the selected objects, but it's easier to remove them, than to add them. I don't think it's a big issue. Not many people have the plugin installed anyway, atm.

comment:4 Changed 4 years ago by Don-vip

Keywords: belgium added

comment:5 in reply to:  3 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Replying to Polyglot:

Anyway, I zipped the SVG files, but to my surprise that zip is even bigger than the one with the PNG files.

I guess it wasn't really obvious since all the other presets have png images. But now that JOSM supports SVG for some time, it is better to keep the original vector format. One could actually reduce the size with svgcleaner-cli, as we do for JOSM core. But the plugin can be a little bigger, this is no problem.

I converted the file on the wiki, so the new stuff should be 'excised' for the time being:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/roadsignpresetBE.xml

It doesn't work, please install and test your preset as described on the wiki. (Also look for errors on the command line.)

comment:6 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I'm very sorry for providing faulty files. I hadn't figured out how to test the configuration I was creating. Now I got it. The file is ready and tested this time. I'm not entirely happy with it though. Sometimes adding an additional sign causes access tags to change, sometimes oneway tags and sometimes it even becomes amenity=bicycle_parking, causing tags which indicate parking along the street for cars should be removed.

The plugin doesn't seem to cumulate multiple tags on the same signpost correctly. I'll have to look into that as well.

Concerning the SVG files, the cleaner did a great job. The file size of the zip is almost half now. I think this is important, especially since those icons are different from country to country and there are many countries.

Is there a way to give a hint to the renderer about the size of the icon? I have one icon, which is gigantic compared to the others.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/roadsignpresetBE.xml
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/RoadSignsBE.zip

Jo

comment:7 in reply to:  2 Changed 4 years ago by stoecker

Replying to bastiK:

Btw., it is an interesting idea to maintain the presets in a wiki.

When in josm wiki we can add an XSD-validation and "export" button like for the other types we have.

Would need a generic XML-type data module, so we don't need to remake it for each new data type. ;-)

comment:8 in reply to:  6 Changed 4 years ago by stoecker

Replying to Polyglot:

Is there a way to give a hint to the renderer about the size of the icon? I have one icon, which is gigantic compared to the others.

You need to set the size in the SVG e.g. with inkscape. JOSM code still lacks proper scaling in some places (see #10688).

comment:9 in reply to:  6 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Replying to Polyglot:

I'm very sorry for providing faulty files. I hadn't figured out how to test the configuration I was creating. Now I got it. The file is ready and tested this time. I'm not entirely happy with it though. Sometimes adding an additional sign causes access tags to change, sometimes oneway tags and sometimes it even becomes amenity=bicycle_parking, causing tags which indicate parking along the street for cars should be removed.

The plugin doesn't seem to cumulate multiple tags on the same signpost correctly. I'll have to look into that as well.

For the initial preset (DE) I took great care that all (reasonable) combination of signs give the correct tags. Have a look at the paragraph on in the Preset Format in the README file if you haven't already. I'll try to help if you give a more detailed example!

Concerning the SVG files, the cleaner did a great job. The file size of the zip is almost half now. I think this is important, especially since those icons are different from country to country and there are many countries.

Is there a way to give a hint to the renderer about the size of the icon? I have one icon, which is gigantic compared to the others.

Not yet. You can directly fix the SVG file as stoecker suggests or use .png for this one. The best solution would be to extend the XML format and add parameters icon_height / icon_width or something like that.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/roadsignpresetBE.xml
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/RoadSignsBE.zip

Thanks! Still some issues:

  • The filenames are lowercase in the XML, but in fact are uppercase. Therefore it doesn't load on Linux.
  • Please don't put the traffic_sign value into an extra tag. This kills the additional checkbox where the user can choose to include this tag or not. Instead, there is the ref or traffic_sign_tag attribute.

E.g. change

  <sign id="no_entry_for_bicycles"
    icon="c11"
    name="Bicycles prohibited">
    <tag key="traffic_sign" value="BE:C11"/>
  </sign>

to

  <sign ref="BE:C11"
    name="Bicycles prohibited">
  </sign>

then call the icon BE_C11.svg. This should then also correctly combine multiple traffic_sign tags into one.

comment:10 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I'll rename the svg file name references and replace the giant one with a png version.

What I would like to do is to be able to lose the 'traffic sign' tick box. I'd like for the plugin to be a bit 'smarter'.

Scenario:
User creates a node for the traffic sign. Then he/she selects the ways it applies to. Splitting if needed. Ctrl-click or Shft-click to add the new node to the selection.

Now they start the RoadSign plugin dialog and select signs and co-signs. If they select a new sign, I'd expect it to be added separated by a semi-colon, if the sign node or the ways already have traffic_sign, the new ones should also be appended separated by semi-colon.

In that scenario the node next to the way gets the proper traffic sign tags and the ways (optionallly) get those too, but additionally they also get the tags that the sign(s) have as an effect.

To me that would be the most efficient way of working. Otherwise one first has to select the ways, select the whole combination of signs, press OK, then do it all again for the signpost node itself.

Jo

comment:11 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Yes, this sounds good. But it is a separate project and should better be discussed in another ticket.

comment:12 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

Since I liked it better when I could control the icon's height, I'm falling back to using png for all the icons.

Combining signs works now. I'm sorry, but to me it wasn't obvious that ref would percolate through to icon and traffic_sign. Especially because of the colon, which can't appear in file names on Windows.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/RoadSignsBE.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/roadsignpresetBE.xml

There are still signs missing, but this is taking way more time than I had ever been able to foresee.

comment:13 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I updated the wiki page as well:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Belgium/Road_signs_plugin

There is still the issue of attributing commons for most of the signs' icons.

comment:14 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

In [o30940] - see ​#josm11058 - new roadsign preset for Belgium (patch by Polyglot).

comment:15 in reply to:  12 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Replying to Polyglot:

Since I liked it better when I could control the icon's height, I'm falling back to using png for all the icons.

Maybe it was a little premature to ask for SVG as there is no nice way to specify the size at the moment.

Combining signs works now. I'm sorry, but to me it wasn't obvious that ref would percolate through to icon and traffic_sign. Especially because of the colon, which can't appear in file names on Windows.

It is documented in the README file though. I've moved this doc to the wiki to make it more visible. You can add some commnets to make it easier for future preset authors, if you like.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/RoadSignsBE.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/roadsignpresetBE.xml

Thanks, great work! I think this preset has a high quality now.

There are still signs missing, but this is taking way more time than I had ever been able to foresee.

I've commented out the entries at the end as it seems to be work in progress. It would be a nice addition though, because with signs like "Motorcars prohibited - Agricultural and forestry vehicles allowed" the tagging starts to get complicated. It is kind of the point of the plugin to aid the user for these more involved combinations.

Anyway, the current state is consistent, so if you have enough for now, I can understand. :)

comment:16 in reply to:  13 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Replying to Polyglot:

There is still the issue of attributing commons for most of the signs' icons.

Please let me know what I should write as attribution and where I should put it.

comment:17 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I have no idea where to put the attribution. It applies to most png files, but they are of course too small to have a visual attribution.
It could be mentioned in the xml, but it's not the xml that came from Commons.

I couldn't find the codes for Belgian signs for the entries at the end. This seems to be better organised in Germany.

I hope that as people in Belgium start to use the preset, they will feel compelled to complete it further. I also hope that the plugin will see some improvements, but I'll create another ticket for that.

My apologies for not immediately understanding everything mentioned in the readme. I probably read it diagonally and got started... I'll have a look at the wiki page to (hopefully) improve it.

Thanks,

Jo

comment:18 in reply to:  17 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Replying to Polyglot:

I have no idea where to put the attribution. It applies to most png files, but they are of course too small to have a visual attribution.
It could be mentioned in the xml, but it's not the xml that came from Commons.

The images on http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_of_Belgium seem to be public domain (just checked a few), so they require no attribution.

I couldn't find the codes for Belgian signs for the entries at the end. This seems to be better organised in Germany.

It is the same in Germany: Below sign 244.1 (bicycle road) there is often a supplementary sign "Motor vehicles allowed", but this is not an official sign, so it has no reference id.

In this case I just invented a value for the traffic_sign key:

<sign ref="DE:Kraftfahrzeuge-frei" supplementary="yes" name="Motor vehicles allowed" de.name="Kraftfahrzeuge frei">
        <tag key="motor_vehicle" value="yes"/>
</sign>

But you could as well simply not include a ref or traffic_sign_tag attribute.

I hope that as people in Belgium start to use the preset, they will feel compelled to complete it further. I also hope that the plugin will see some improvements, but I'll create another ticket for that.

My apologies for not immediately understanding everything mentioned in the readme. I probably read it diagonally and got started... I'll have a look at the wiki page to (hopefully) improve it.

Great!

comment:19 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I could invent tags myself too. I'll look into that. The problem in Belgium is that one would have to do that in 2 languages, at least. Maybe I could get around that by putting them all in German, as that is an official language in Belgium as well :-) ofc English would be understood by more people outside of that small region in the East.
Maybe it makes more sense to include the tag (abbreviated somehow) which gets applied to the ways, as an effect of the sign.

I have a few suggestions for improvement of the plugin, do I create a new ticket for each one separately or one ticket where they are combined? As an example, it would be nice if a relation editor window is opened for a restriction relation.

comment:20 in reply to:  19 Changed 4 years ago by stoecker

Replying to Polyglot:

I have a few suggestions for improvement of the plugin, do I create a new ticket for each one separately or one ticket where they are combined? As an example, it would be nice if a relation editor window is opened for a restriction relation.

In general individual tickets are better, as they can be solved individually. Smaller things which very likely can be fixed in one go can also be grouped in one ticket.

comment:21 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Resolution: fixed
Status: newclosed

If you have more code, please reopen this ticket or create a new one.

comment:23 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Resolution: fixed
Status: closedreopened
Summary: Data for the RoadSigns plugin for Belgium[patch] Data for the RoadSigns plugin for Belgium

comment:24 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

Resolution: fixed
Status: reopenedclosed
Summary: [patch] Data for the RoadSigns plugin for BelgiumData for the RoadSigns plugin for Belgium

See [o30945] - see ​#josm11058 - more Data for the RoadSigns? plugin for Belgium (patch by Polyglot).

comment:25 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

I added all parking related signs. That's a whole class of signs on its own! Then some hazmat and bus lane related ones.

The range of possible additional signs is probably nearing completion. What's left now are more informational signs.

For the parking related signs, I had to be somewhat creative for the file names. There is no proper official code assigned to each and every one of them.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/RoadSignsBE.zip
​​​https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/roadsignpresetBE.xml

comment:26 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

In [o30948] - applied #11058 - Data for the RoadSigns? plugin for Belgium, Parking and others (patch by Polyglot)

comment:27 Changed 4 years ago by Polyglot

Expanded data file a bit more. Resolved some bugs reported by Sander.

Included all hazard warning signs, support for ZONE and several informational signs.
During the next round it should be complete. What's left are signs pointing to destinations. Not even sure if we'd want to start mapping those as well.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/RoadSignsBE.zip
​​​​https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42418402/RoadSignsBE/roadsignpresetBE.xml

comment:28 Changed 4 years ago by bastiK

In [o30977] - see #11058 - road sign data for Belgium, update (patch by Polyglot)

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