[RFC PATCH] Add `man_made=utility_pole` to presets

[taylor.smock]

Current usage is >20,000 (mostly in the past year -- see ​https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/man_made=utility_pole#chronology ).

Current patch notes:

• Reuses the icon for power=pole in presets
• Adds two new chunks
  • utilities for presets that share utility keys
  • pole for pole-like objects (height, material, and ref_operator)
• Adds the utility_pole preset

Note: Patch is now being tracked at ​https://gitlab.com/smocktaylor/josm/-/merge_requests/4

[taylor.smock]

Add man_made=utility_pole to presets

[taylor.smock]

For the different pole icon, I'm thinking one of two different options:
1) Modify the power pole icon to have a different surrounding color (probably white)
2) Use ​https://github.com/mapillary/mapillary_sprite_source/blob/master/package_objects/object--support--utility-pole.svg with some modifications (MIT licensed)

[taylor.smock]

Possible pole icon (same as powerpole, just with a white halo)

[taylor.smock]

4 week keep-alive ping (oops).

Which pole icon would be preferred? This is going to affect the name of the icon (and hence the final patch). If I use the one from Mapillary, I'm going to keep the filename as object--support--utility-pole.svg, while if I use the modified powerpole.svg icon, I would use the generic pole.svg.

[francois.lacombe]

Hi all

This value is going through a formal proposal which is currently in RFC state
​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Utility_poles_proposal

Shouldn't we wait vote to occur as to not have to change the preset right after?

Feel free to comment the proposal is you have input for it
That's great to see useful icon for that as well, thank you

All the best

[taylor.smock]

I was not aware that there was a proposal for it.

It does, however, have a non-proposal wiki page ( ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dutility_pole ), which indicates that the tag status is in use.

Also, as far as I can tell, the proposal is ~7 years newer than the Tag:man_made=utility_pole page, but better and more well-defined documentation is always welcome.

[francois.lacombe]

Yeah I'm aware of the Tag page and it indeed exists since many years.

The proposal is here to encourage a formal discussion about how this value may be useful and with which tags it should be combined.
There may be kind of confusion between power=pole and more general man_made=utility_pole.

This proposal won't deprecate man_made=utility_pole but encourage it actually so it won't cause any harm to add a preset to JOSM prior to vote
Some problems could occur with combined tags and power=pole duplicity and it could impact on preset and validation rules.
As power=pole isn't a really good power value, the proposal will deprecate telecom=pole prior to its establishment to prevent any similar problem as well

[taylor.smock]

Four month I forgot about this ping.

I probably need to update the patch, but I'd like to know from the core devs if they want a utility_pole preset.

The two images side by side (48px). Left is attachment:pole.svg​ and right is from the mapillary_sprite_source (MIT licensed).
or

[skyper]

Comparing the power pole and utility_pole, , I think the new icon should look a little more different. How about only one (or on one side only a small) horizontal bar and/or little vertical lines on top of the horizontal bar instead of below.

[gaben]

I think it's not ready to be included in the core JOSM presets. The tagging doesn't seem established for me.

Only 17.5% of the man_made=utility_poles use utility= secondary tag, and 80% of it is utility=telecom.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but also duplicates tags; power pole with lighting tagged as

• man_made=utility_pole
• utility=power;street_lighting
• highway=street_lamp
• power=pole

is same as

• highway=street_lamp
• power=pole.

[taylor.smock]

Replying to gaben:

Only 17.5% of the man_made=utility_poles use utility= secondary tag, and 80% of it is utility=telecom.

I don't know about you, but I cannot tell the difference between a pole used by a telecom and a powerpole when randomly mapping poles. Once you have connected it back to a substation/power plant, it becomes much easier to determine.

AFAIK, there are only two major uses for utility poles: power, and communication. (power, television, telecom). So, with power=pole having been widespread already, it isn't terribly surprising that most utility tags for man_made=utility_pole is telecom.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but also duplicates tags; power pole with lighting tagged as

• man_made=utility_pole
• utility=power;street_lighting
• highway=street_lamp
• power=pole

is same as

• highway=street_lamp
• power=pole.

Reading the proposed spec, if the utility pole was primarily installed as a power pole,
man_made=utility_pole + utility=power and (mandatory) power=pole. I suspect power=pole is mostly mandatory for compatibility reasons though.
highway=street_lamp

With all that being said, I would much rather have people map a more generic pole when they cannot reliably determine the usage, and then allow applications like StreetComplete to fill in the missing information, instead of the mapper having to assume power=pole or communication=pole (or something else).

[taylor.smock]

Pole, missing right, left upraised

[taylor.smock]

Pole, missing right, left down

[taylor.smock]

Pole, both raised

[taylor.smock]

Pole, missing left, right upraised

[taylor.smock]

Pole, missing left, right down

[taylor.smock]

Replying to skyper:

Comparing the power pole and utility_pole, , I think the new icon should look a little more different. How about only one (or on one side only a small) horizontal bar and/or little vertical lines on top of the horizontal bar instead of below.

Original power pole:

To me, the ones that are missing on side appear to be lopsided.