[PATCH][RFC] Add/ignore popular tags: man_made=courtyard, maxweight:signed, natural=crevasse, oneway:moped, opening_hours:signed, operator:type=public, plant:method=photovoltaic, railway:radio

[Don-vip]

I need help to add (or ignore if we don't want them) recent popular tags into presets:

jenkins/job/JOSM-Integration/lastCompletedBuild/jdk=JDK8/testReport/org.openstreetmap.josm.data.osm/TaginfoTestIT/testCheckPopularTags__/

• building=stilt_house (added r18336)
• craft=grinding_mill - 34201
• healthcare=alternative (ignored)
• healthcare:speciality=general - 19538
• indoor=area - 10145
• leisure=sports_hall - 12251 (#21964)
• man_made=courtyard - 21075
• maxweight:signed=no - 20886 (ignored)
• military=trench - 10804
• natural=crevasse - 36226
• oneway:moped=no - 15649
• opening_hours:signed=no - 14713 (ignored)
• operator:type=public - 188232 (ignored)
• plant:method=photovoltaic - 12060 (#21398)
• product=food - 34176
• railway:radio=gsm-r - 83728 (ignored)
• military=trench - 10168
• surface=unhewn_cobblestone - 10049 (added r18336)
• type=turnlanes:turns - 23990
• vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in - 10161 (ignored)

I already added or ignored the obvious ones in r18242 / r18245

[skyper]

Oh man, the wiki is just a mess with missing votes on "approved" proposal and lots of wrong information about status of tags.

ignore:

• maxweight:signed (StreetComplete)
• opening_hours:signed (StreetComplete)
• operator:type=public
• railway:radio (in OpenRailway external preset)

include:

• man_made=courtyard
• natural=crevasse
• plant:method

unsure, ignore for now?

• oneway:moped, I also find oneway:psv and oneway:bus but with lower numbers.

Just my 2ct

[skyper]

additionally S:colour: should be added to the ignore list to silence validator see #21336.

[skyper]

I split plant:method off into #21398.

[Don-vip]

In 18250/josm:

see #21396, see #21336 - ignore more tags

[skyper]

Coding the presets for man_made=courtyard and natural=crevasse is no big deal. Once again I have trouble finding nice icons.

[Don-vip]

that's the most difficult part '

[Don-vip]

In 18262/josm:

see #21396 - ignore boundary=historic

[Don-vip]

Milestone renamed

[Don-vip]

In 18245/josm:

see #21396 - add flag:type to flagpole preset ; ignore some other popular tags

[Klumbumbus]

I'm not in favor of natural=crevasse. While the total number is quite high (36k) this is used only on a few spots worldwide, see ​https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=natural&value=crevasse&filter=all#map.
I randomly checked one spot: ​https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1czA There are 2432 ways on this little glacier alone. And with this detailed mapping it is probably highly outdated anyway.
Also the wiki page says it is proposal approved, but on the linked proposal page (​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/crevasse) was never discussed or voted. It links to the proposal of natural=ridge which is unrelated.
(If added nevertheless one day, a icon is here after 21440#comment:24)

[Klumbumbus]

type=turnlanes:turns

• marked as obsolete on ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:type%3Dturnlanes:turns and ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/turn_lanes
• numbers don't really grow for the last few years ​https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#relation/type/turnlanes:turns

So I would deprecate it in favor of turn:lanes tags, however we also have the plugin "turnlanes". More opinions?

[Don-vip]

Agreed to ignore those tags.

[skyper]

Thanks for clarifying natural=crevasse. Can we add the unused icon to nodist or have a ticket about natural=crevasse.

Last week, I already wrote a PM to the author of the TurnLanes preset asking about removing it but without answer, so far. Actually, I never took a look at all the plugins about turn:lanes=* but the obsolete relation should not be supported as we have *:lanes=* tagging and the connectivity relations.

[skyper]

Replying to skyper:

Thanks for clarifying natural=crevasse. Can we add the unused icon to nodist or have a ticket about natural=crevasse.

How about NewTags, is it ok or do you have problems with the tag in general?

[Don-vip]

Milestone renamed

[Don-vip]

In 18336/josm:

see #21396 - add building=stilt_house, surface=unhewn_cobblestone / ignore boundary=census, building=outbuilding

[skyper]

vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in is present in presets with a multiselect including both values. Looks like taginfo and the test are not ready for multiple values.

[Don-vip]

In 18351/josm:

see #21396 - ignore healthcare=alternative

[Don-vip]

In 18356/josm:

see #21396 - ignore vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in

[stoecker]

Milestone renamed

[skyper]

Replying to Klumbumbus:

I'm not in favor of natural=crevasse. While the total number is quite high (36k) this is used only on a few spots worldwide, see ​https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=natural&value=crevasse&filter=all#map.
I randomly checked one spot: ​https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1czA There are 2432 ways on this little glacier alone. And with this detailed mapping it is probably highly outdated anyway.
Also the wiki page says it is proposal approved, but on the linked proposal page (​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/crevasse) was never discussed or voted. It links to the proposal of natural=ridge which is unrelated.
(If added nevertheless one day, a icon is here after 21440#comment:24)

Ignore it for now.

Replying to Klumbumbus:

type=turnlanes:turns

• marked as obsolete on ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:type%3Dturnlanes:turns and ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/turn_lanes
• numbers don't really grow for the last few years ​https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#relation/type/turnlanes:turns

So I would deprecate it in favor of turn:lanes tags, however we also have the plugin "turnlanes". More opinions?

Replying to skyper:

Last week, I already wrote a PM to the author of the TurnLanes preset asking about removing it but without answer, so far. Actually, I never took a look at all the plugins about turn:lanes=* but the obsolete relation should not be supported as we have *:lanes=* tagging and the connectivity relations.

I never got an answer. The user did not make any changes on OSM the last two years, though.
+1 for deprecating the plugin.
Do we need warning about the obsolete relations or is ignoring the tag enough?

---

Meanwhile, there are more tags, I have updated the list in the description.

• healthcare:speciality=general
• indoor=area

Should be ignored.

• craft=grinding_mill should be added to the external craft preset and ignored in core
• product=* should be added to the man_made=work presets but so far only foot and charcoal have high numbers (20k+). The rest has only up to 3k uses and the values on the wiki are not significantly the ones with wiki pages. So I am not sure which ones to add besides food (​taginfo

[Hufkratzer]

Regarding leisure=sports_hall:

I think it should be added to the menu Sports/Sport Facilities. It is not approved but was discussed a lot, see its ​wiki talk page.

The preset should a have field to select the sport(s) for which the sports_hall is used (like sports_centre has).

iD has a ​preset for this tag with name "Gymnasium". This name is probably a bit unfortunate because the tag is not specifically for what you typically call a gymnasium but can also be used for other halls (e.g. tennis halls, climbing halls, riding halls), compare this ​summary. Maybe you prefer to give it some other name.

sports_hall could also be added to the presets for some sports (e.g. tennis, climbing, equestrian, swimming, handball, ...), although I must say that there are not too many uses of these combinations yet (274 leisure=sports_hall + sport=tennis is the most frequent one).

Edit / addition
leisure=sports_hall + sport=multi is the most frequent combination with 4888 uses.

[skyper]

@Hufkratzer:
I think there are no objections regarding leisure=sports_hall. The major task is to find a suitable svg icon with different colors and enough contrast.

[Hufkratzer]

Proposal 1 for sports_hall icon

[skyper]

I've created #21964 for leisure=sports_hall.

[stoecker]

Milestone renamed

[mdk]

Would it make sense to replace the list in the description with the actual new tags?

• amenity=loading_dock - 10778
• amenity=parcel_locker - 13874
• amenity=payment_terminal - 10245
• barrier=sliding_gate - 12483
• boundary=forest_compartment - 10069
• craft=grinding_mill - 34264
• cycleway:right:oneway=no - 10421
• emergency=access_point - 10437
• entrance=shop - 16342
• healthcare:speciality=general - 20611
• hedge=hedge_bank - 52055
• historic=bomb_crater - 10333
• indoor=area - 10427
• leisure=sports_hall - 15084 (#21964)
• man_made=courtyard - 21533
• man_made=gantry - 10203
• maxspeed:type=GB:nsl_restricted - 12906
• maxspeed:type=PL:urban - 10271
• military=trench - 11411
• natural=crevasse - 36424
• oneway:moped=no - 17336
• product=food - 34258
• religion=none - 11547
• type=turnlanes:turns - 23994
• vending=fuel - 10223

(bold are remains from the old list)

[mkoniecz]

Oh man, the wiki is just a mess with missing votes on "approved" proposal and lots of wrong information about status of tags.

If you spot such issues - can you at least comment on talk page of affected documentation page?

Or maybe even edit wiki page...

In case of major failures - you can comment also on ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki

[taylor.smock]

Replying to mdk:

Would it make sense to replace the list in the description with the actual new tags?
[...snip...]
(bold are remains from the old list)

Probably. Anyway, updated list:

• advertising=board - 10723 (looks like organic usage, needs icon, "in use")
• amenity=loading_dock - 10778 -> 12015 (looks like organic usage, needs icon, "in use")
• amenity=parcel_locker - 13874 -> 22569 (very sharp uptake starting in early 2022, needs icon, "approved" -- see ​osmwiki:Proposed_features/amenity=parcel_locker )
• amenity=payment_terminal - 10245 -> 10475 (very sharp uptake in early 2022, probably due to an import, "de facto")
• barrier=sliding_gate - 12483 -> 15470 (very sharp increase in 2022, apparently due to grab mappers, see ​osmwiki:Tag:barrier=sliding_gate for details)
• boundary=forest_compartment - 10069 -> 13241 (sharp increase in 2022, "approved" -- see ​osmwiki:Proposed_features/boundary=forest(_compartment)_relations_(v3) )
• building=pavilion - 10130 (looks organic, but very consistent increase over past 2 years, "in use")
• craft=grinding_mill - 34264 -> 37203 (looks like most use is from an import in early 2022, "in use")
• cycleway:right:oneway=no - 10421 -> 10897 (looks organic, we can probably just add this to ignoretags.cfg)
• emergency=access_point - 10437 -> 10593 (mostly organic, with what looks like a reverted import, "draft" -- supposed to be a replacement for highway=emergency_access_point)
• entrance=shop - 16342 -> 17461 (looks organic, "de facto")
• healthcare:speciality=general - 20611 -> 21325 (looks organic, "approved" -- see ​osmwiki:Proposed_features/Healthcare )
• hedge=hedge_bank - 52055 -> 57396 (looks like an import, "in use", but OSM carto is displaying it)
• historic=bomb_crater - 10333 -> 10666 (looks like an import, "in use")
• indoor=area - 10427 -> 10974 (looks organic, "in use")
• leisure=sports_hall - 15084 -> 16451 (#21964)
• lit=automatic - 10177 (looks organic, "de facto")
• locked=yes - 14044a (very sharp uptick this year, used in conjunction with barrier, "approved" -- see ​osmwiki:Proposed_features/Key:locked)
• man_made=courtyard - 21533 -> 21666 (mostly due to an import, "in use")
• man_made=gantry - 10203 -> 10994 (mostly organic, although there appears to have been two imports, "de facto")
• maxspeed:type=GB:nsl_restricted - 12906 -> 14224 (looks organic, probably add E:maxspeed:type to ignoretags.cfg)
• maxspeed:type=PL:urban - 10271 -> 10521 (see above)
• military=trench - 11411 -> 12186 (looks organic, "in use")
• natural=crevasse - 36424 -> 36427 (almost all usage is due to an import, "in use")
• oneway:moped=no - 17336 -> 17712 (we probably ought to handle oneway subtags better)
• path=crossing - 10260 (looks organic, looks like it is similar to footway=crossing, e.g. highway=footway + footway=crossing, it is instead highway=path + path=crossing)
• product=food - 34258 -> 34303 (import, subtag of man_made=works, "in use")
• railway=proposed - 10015 (looks organic, "in use")
• religion=none - 11547 -> 12371 (organic, mostly used with amenity=school, "de facto")
• road_marking=solid_stop_line - 32084 (mostly from an import, but organic usage has reached > 10k, "in use")
• service=driveway2 - 10528 (I consider this to be a mistagging, and we probably ought to automatically remove it or change it to service=driveway, "deprecated")
• surface=paving_stones:30 - 10745 (looks organic, no documentation)
• surface=rock - 11029 (looks organic, "in use")
• type=turnlanes:turns - 23994 -> 24145 (obsolete, superseded by connectivity relations, proposal at ​osmwiki:Relations/Proposed/turn_lanes)
• vending=fuel - 10223 -> 10397 (looks organic, "in use")

We should probably add all the stuff added by import to ignoretags until there is sufficient non-import usage (10k usages, hopefully someone who does the tagging notices and lets us know).

I'll do a pass to add subtags to the appropriate presets. Primary tags are going to have to wait for someone with art skills. :)

Tags I'll be adding to presets (and some other documented values for that key):

• lit=automatic
• building=pavilion
• locked=yes
• religion=none
• surface=rock (I will not be adding paving_stones:30 due to lack of documentation)
• entrance=shop (depends upon whether or not I need to make an icon)
• vending=fuel (depends upon whether or not I need to make an icon)

Tags I'll be adding to ignoretags.cfg:

• E:cycleway:right:oneway (I might want to see if there is something somewhere that lets us excluse restriction tags like this)
• E:cycleway:left:oneway (just for completeness)
• E:maxspeed:type (covers both GB:nsl_restricted, PL:urban, and many others)

Of the remaining items, I would prioritize the amenity=parcel_locker (~8k increase in 3 months).

[anonymous]

paving_stones:30 - I would recommend ignoring them. Someone is mapping square paving stones as a specific surface as a separate surface type what really makes no sense at all.

[taylor.smock]

Replying to anonymous:

paving_stones:30 - I would recommend ignoring them. Someone is mapping square paving stones as a specific surface as a separate surface type what really makes no sense at all.

I'll have to look into that. If so, then a validator warning with an autofix would be more appropriate. Maybe surface=paving_stones:30 -> surface=paving_stones + paving_stones:length=30 + paving_stones:width=30?

Probably something generic would work *[way][surface=/^paving_stones:(\d+)$/]{fixAdd: "surface=paving_stones"; fixAdd: "paving_stones:length=$1"; fixAdd: "paving_stones:width=$1"} (note: $1 would have to be replaced with concat, regexp_match, and get, I believe).

[taylor.smock]

attachment:21396.patch​ does the following:

• Ignores
  • maxspeed:type
• Ignores in TODO section
  • advertising=board
  • amenity=loading_dock
  • amenity=parcel_locker
  • amenity=payment_terminal
  • barrier=sliding_gate
  • boundary=forest_compartment
  • craft=grinding_mill
  • emergency=access_point
  • healthcare:speciality=general
  • hedge=hedge_bank
  • historic=bomb_crater
  • indoor=area
  • leisure=sports_hall
  • man_made=courtyard
  • man_made=gantry
  • military=trench
  • natural=crevasse
  • path=crossing
  • railway=proposed
  • road_marking=solid_stop_line
  • oneway (F::oneway/S:oneway:), but indicates that this might need better software support
• Misspelling
  • driveway2 -> driveway
• Issues:
  • Suggest paving_stones:length/paving_stones:width for paving_stones:30
  • Indicate type="turnlanes:turns" is deprecated
• Preset updates
  • Modify lit to be more than yes/no
  • Add rock to surfaces
  • Add none to religions (other_religions)
  • Add locked (text="Usually locked" -- there is probably better wording for this)
  • Add pavilion to building
  • Add shop as a possible value for entrance
  • Add product as an optional key for man_made=works. With all currently documented values.
  • Add fuel to possible values for vending

[mkoniecz]

barrier=sliding_gate is tightly concentrated in one area and used basically only by paid mappers, despite that barrier=gate is existing tagging for it.

Is it a good idea to support it?

man_made=courtyard is encouraging to double map all inners of buildings, is it really worth supporting?

Note that driveway2 vs driveway stuff is driven by single person who uses it intentionally (see wiki page) because some specific legislation defines driveways differently than in OSM (if I remember their argument right), it is not a misspelling

[Famlam]

barrier=sliding_gate is tightly concentrated in one area and used basically only by paid mappers, despite that barrier=gate is existing tagging for it.

I've also used it for several years as it's more in line with the other barrier=*_gate keys. Note that the "common" way of tagging as mentioned on the wiki also has historical reasons, just like most foldable bollards are mapped as removable, highway=busway as highway=service, or any new key. I would support a proposal to get all barrier=*_gate under gate:type instead, but for now I'd argue it's a valid tag.

[taylor.smock]

Replying to Famlam:

barrier=sliding_gate is tightly concentrated in one area and used basically only by paid mappers, despite that barrier=gate is existing tagging for it.

I've also used it for several years as it's more in line with the other barrier=*_gate keys. Note that the "common" way of tagging as mentioned on the wiki also has historical reasons, just like most foldable bollards are mapped as removable, highway=busway as highway=service, or any new key. I would support a proposal to get all barrier=*_gate under gate:type instead, but for now I'd argue it's a valid tag.

In the patch, I just (essentially) ignored it until we come to a decision. I didn't put it in the presets since I would have had to make an icon for it, along with the fact that it is currently mostly used by organized editors.

Replying to mkoniecz:

man_made=courtyard is encouraging to double map all inners of buildings, is it really worth supporting?

Probably. It is explicit that the inner is a courtyard instead of something else.

Note that driveway2 vs driveway stuff is driven by single person who uses it intentionally (see wiki page) because some specific legislation defines driveways differently than in OSM (if I remember their argument right), it is not a misspelling

I did see that. However, that single person should have used a more descriptive term. driveway2 is a misspelling of driveway for everyone except that single person. In other words, if I am mapping in the area this single mapper was/is mapping in, and I am adding a driveway, if JOSM autocompletes with driveway2, then I want it to be shown as a misspelling.

I'd be more sympathetic if it had gone through the proposal process, or at least made sense (i.e. service=access).

Anyway, as of today, statistics on who touched objects with service=driveway2 last using the overpass query of [out:json][timeout:25];(way["service"="driveway2"];);out meta; and piping the output to jq -r '[.elements[] | {uid: .uid, user: .user}] | group_by(.uid) | map(.[]+{"count": length}) | unique_by(.uid) | .[] | [.count, .uid, .user] | @csv' | sort -n -k 1 -t ',' -r.

10391 for a ​single user. 138 for all remaining users. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I doubt the 30 users added driveway=service2.

I think I'm going to post on the diary entry.

[mkoniecz]

and I am adding a driveway, if JOSM autocompletes with driveway2, then I want it to be shown as a misspelling.

Oh definitely.

Just wanted to make sure that it is known that it is a bit more complex case, and some driveway2 may not qualify for driveway

[taylor.smock]

That is true, and I did post on the user's diary entry letting him know that I am likely to mark driveway2 as a misspelling of driveway in JOSM, specifically so he has a chance to go back and change it to something that makes sense.

[Woazboat]

As far as I know a lot of the ways that are tagged with service=driveway2 do not actually meet the definition/usage of service=driveway. Treating it as a misspelling and correcting it to service=driveway would therefore lead to mistagging of those service roads. I think it should be treated as a deprecated tag that should be removed instead.

[Woazboat]

Here's some additional discussion regarding service=driveway2: ​https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/125373826

[Woazboat]

Replying to taylor.smock:

Replying to mkoniecz:

man_made=courtyard is encouraging to double map all inners of buildings, is it really worth supporting?

Probably. It is explicit that the inner is a courtyard instead of something else.

Agree, not all open spaces surrounded by a building are courtyards and there should be a tag to mark those that are.

[mkoniecz]

Here's some additional discussion regarding service=driveway2: ​​https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/125373826

And ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:service%3Ddriveway2&action=history ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway2#Differences_Against_Driveway_specifications

[taylor.smock]

In 18552/josm:

Fix #21396: Add/ignore popular tags

• Ignores
  • maxspeed:type
• Ignores in TODO section (now sorted)
  • advertising=board
  • amenity=loading_dock
  • amenity=parcel_locker
  • amenity=payment_terminal
  • barrier=sliding_gate
  • boundary=forest_compartment
  • craft=grinding_mill
  • emergency=access_point
  • healthcare:speciality=general
  • hedge=hedge_bank
  • historic=bomb_crater
  • indoor=area
  • leisure=sports_hall
  • man_made=courtyard
  • man_made=gantry
  • military=trench
  • natural=crevasse
  • path=crossing
  • railway=proposed
  • road_marking=solid_stop_line
  • oneway (F::oneway/S:oneway:), but indicates that this might need better software support
• Issues:
  • Suggest paving_stones:length/paving_stones:width for paving_stones:30
  • Indicate type="turnlanes:turns" is deprecated
• Preset updates
  • Modify lit to be more than yes/no
  • Add rock to surfaces
  • Add none to religions (other_religions)
  • Add locked (text="Usually locked" -- there is probably better wording for this)
  • Add pavilion to building
  • Add shop as a possible value for entrance
  • Add product as an optional key for man_made=works. With all currently documented values.
  • Add fuel to possible values for vending